Delta 8 supplements are a new class of products that are rapidly flooding the hemp market. While you may see them sold from brands that also sell CBD, these products create a very distinct sensation. Consumers that try Delta 8 feel stoned, making this more like psychoactive cannabis (“marijuana”) than CBD. 

Because these supplements come from legal industrial hemp, Delta 8 supplements may be legal to possess anywhere in the United States. Many experts think this is a legal loophole that the government will close very soon.

“Law enforcement and regulatory bodies don’t necessarily like it when you exploit loopholes that can get people high,” commented Jordan Lams, founder of Moxie Seeds and Extracts. 

Lams, who has over decade’s experience in the cannabis and hemp industries, helped us understand this substance.

Editor’s Note: In November, Jordan Lams visited the Ministry of Hemp podcast to discuss Delta 8. -KO

For now, various companies like Exhale Wellness are producing Delta 8 products and are widely available. We thought it was important to create this guide to help you understand this new cannabinoid, how it’s made, and how to safely use it if you choose to try it. 

While we suspect Delta 8 is safe to use as other forms of cannabis, we didn’t want anyone to try it without realizing how it differs from CBD. 

Table of Contents

• What is Delta 8? How is Delta 8 different from CBD?
• How is Delta 8 made? Is it safe?
• Is Delta 8 legal?
• How do you use Delta 8?
• Will the government ban Delta 8?

What is Delta-8 THC And How Does It Make You Feel?

Most Delta-8 is made from hemp and often sold by CBD companies. If you look at the marketing for these products, it’s not always clear what you are getting into.

For legal reasons, most companies won’t openly advertise the fact that Delta 8 gets you stoned. 

Rather than CBD, Delta-8-THC is much more similar to Delta-9-THC. Commonly just called THC, this is the main active ingredient found in psychoactive cannabis (“marijuana”). When consumed, it can cause euphoria, relaxation, pain relief along with giddiness, creative moods, or even potentially make you more anxious … In other words, Delta 8 causes most or all of the effects commonly associated with the regular form of THC. 

Delta 8 is made from hemp but, unlike CBD, it will get you high.

“It’s probably a nuanced difference from Delta-9-THC,” said Lams. “Molecularly, it’s pretty darn similar but it’s not exactly the same.”

The chemical differences between the two forms THC are very small, and they both interact with receptors in our brain and nervous system (the “endocannabinoid system”). For more information, look at our article which compares CBD and THC. 

Some people do experience slightly different effects. We asked our readers on Twitter, and looked at some consumer reports on Reddit. Many people report feeling more of a physical, “body high” from Delta 8, with less of the mental effects of THC/marijuana. 

“My experience with it has been very pleasant, from a consumption standpoint,” said Lams.

Remember though, experiences vary a great deal from person to person.

How is Delta-8 made? Is it Safe?

If you’re new to sensations of feeling high, we recommend you proceed with caution … First, however, we want to address whether these products are safe or FDA approved.

We prefer to recommend plant-based compounds The process of transforming one cannabinoid into another sounds unnatural, but Lams said that’s a misconception. To create Delta 8, chemists expose CBD extract to a process called isomerization. 

“It’s not a scary process with a lot of chemicals,” said Lams. “It’s really just manipulation of the chemistry through heat and pressure.”

Chemists working in the legal cannabis industry have been creating Delta 8 from regular THC for a while, but using CBD is relatively new. 

“The onset when you take too much can really be overwhelming.”

Jordan Lams, Moxie Seeds And Extracts

Even so, hemp brands “quickly scaled up the ability to do isomerization,” he continued. “So the chemical purity of the products they’re converting from CBD … it’s pretty good stuff.”

Cannabis has a very long history of use without any fatal overdoses. So Delta 8 is probably physically safe to consume. Of course, we’re not doctors, and there’s a chance it could interact with prescription drugs or other substances. In addition, getting high causes significant mental changes that make it more dangerous to drive or perform other risky activities. 

Probably the biggest risk is that inexperienced users might take too much and have mentally challenging experiences. 

“I do know of a couple of different people that were inexperienced THC users that used Delta 8 and ended up having an adverse overdose and checking themselves into hospitals,” cautioned Lams. “The onset when you take too much can really be overwhelming.” 

To restate, they probably weren’t in physical danger but were mentally very overwhelmed. 

Is Delta-8 THC legal?

After the government legalized hemp at the end of 2018, lots of people grew hemp and produced raw CBD extract. Too much of it! Combine a glut of raw CBD, with a potential legal loophole allowing brands to sell mind-altering substances, and you can see why lots of brands are experimenting with this.

We’re not lawyers and we can’t say for sure what the legal consequences could be for possessing, or especially the manufacture and sales of Delta 8 products. Since Delta 8 made from hemp is so new, most lawyers can’t say for sure either. 

Police field tests probably can’t tell the difference between illegal marijuana and ‘legal’ Delta 8.

Lams compared this substance to kratom, which is under threat by the government, and salvia, a herbal psychedelic that got banned after widespread use. “If you look historically at attempts to utilize loopholes to commercialize psychoactive products, that doesn’t typically go well.” 

A consumer using Delta 8 products is still going to face serious charges if they get caught driving impaired or otherwise put people at risk. 

“In the eyes of the average public safety official, they’re not going to be able to tell the difference.” 

Most field tests used by police probably won’t be able to tell the difference, either. 

Lawyers seem divided about whether Delta 8 is legal at all. The CBD industry is unregulated, and there isn’t much precedent for this kind of thing in the hemp world. 

“It’s such a polarizing legal issue that I think it will be addressed swiftly,” Lams said.

How to Purchase and Use Delta-8?

Never buy Delta 8 from a gas station or other disreputable location. Only purchase from brands that are transparent about their sourcing, manufacturing process, and offer third-party lab results. These lab results should verify the strength of the product and its purity, showing you that it’s free from contaminants like pesticides, mold and heavy metals. The date on the test results should be recent (ideally 6 months or less) and the brand should carry out new tests on every batch.

Even though their effects are very different, Delta 8 supplements are used in much the same way as CBD. Most commonly, you’ll find tinctures, edibles like Delta 8 gummies, and Delta 8 vape cartridges. 

When it comes to dosing, we recommend that you “start low and go slow.” Begin with a very low dose, especially if you are inexperienced. Consider taking half a dropper full (or less) of tincture. Split strong edibles into pieces.

When it comes to dosing, ‘start low and go slow.’

A vape or tincture will usually take effect more quickly than an edible. Sometimes people take too many edibles beause they think it’s “not working.” In reality, it’s just working slowly and can build up dramatically over time. 

If you do take too much Delta 8, don’t panic and remember the sensations will pass. The same advice people give for getting over feeling too stoned applies here: stay calm and hydrated, make yourself comfortable, and find pleasant ways to distract yourself until you sober up.

Conclusion: Is Delta-8 Legal?

If we’ve seemed harsh towards Delta 8, it’s because we don’t want someone stumbling into these products without the proper education. Lams stressed that Delta 8 can benefit people, just like the more common form of THC.

“Having access to something that can provide a different type of therapy, for those seeking medicinal relief, it could be really great.” He said. “More access is important for scientific research.”

“The looming issue is what’s the FDA going to do? What’s the DEA going to do?”

Jordan Lams, Moxie Seeds And Extracts

Yet it’s a form of relief which could disappear at any time. He doesn’t think this will threaten the CBD industry as a whole. It’s likely to be dealt with in a “standalone” way. Still, the future is uncertain.

“The looming issue is what’s the FDA going to do? What’s the DEA going to do, what are state and local public safety officials going to do?”

He continued, “I don’t believe this should be a criminal issue, when the overall regulatory framework is so new.” 

Even so, it’s possible that we could even see police raids against establishments selling Delta 8 and other serious consequences for the people who manufacture and sell these products. 

We’ll continue to update this article as this fast-moving issue develops.

The post What is Delta 8 THC? Effects, Safety & Legality appeared first on Ministry of Hemp.

In episode 61, our podcast host Matt is learning about a new cannabinoid that’s just now hitting the wellness market, Delta 8 THC. Jordan Lams, CEO of Moxie, a cannabis cultivation, and manufacturing company out of Long Beach, CA, is Matt’s guest.

Jordan was our expert for the Ministry of Hemp’s guide to Delta 8 THC, so we were excited to get him on the show. Matt and Jordan discuss everything you need to know about Delta 8 THC: is it legal, how and why are people using it, where does it come from and what impact will it have on the CBD market.

But that’s not all … to close out the podcast, Matt takes a dose of Delta 8 THC too and records his experience.

Here are our guides:

• Delta 8 carts
• Delta 8 gummies

About Moxie and Jordan Lams:

MOXIE is a recognized leader in cannabis with over 90 global industry awards. They cultivate, manufacture and distribute high quality cannabis products in California, Nevada, Pennsylvania and Arizona with more states coming soon. It is their mission to improve the quality of life and well-being by producing the highest quality cannabis products globally.

At age 28, it’s hard not to say that Jordan Lams has moxie. Ten years ago, Lams was skeptical of cannabis but started researching it as a teenager when a friend challenged his negative assumptions. It took him a year and a review of his findings with his family doctor before he changed his mind. Later, his sister’s tragic struggle with leukemia helped solidify his desire to be a part of the cannabis movement.

Subscribe to our show!

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Delta 8 Explained: Complete Episode Transcript

Below you’ll find the complete transcript of episode 61 of the Ministry of Hemp podcast, “Delta 8 THC Exploration Podcast”:

Matt Baum:
I’m Matt Baum. And this is the Ministry of Hemp Podcast brought to you by ministryofhemp.com. America’s leading advocate for hemp and hemp education.

Well, it’s finally happening. I’ve been threatening for a few weeks now, but we’re doing it. It’s the whole show about a new cannabinoid, Delta-8-THC. And not only are we going to talk about it? My conversation today is with Jordan Lams, the CEO of Moxie, cannabis cultivator and manufacturer. Jordan is amazing and has a huge breadth of knowledge. And I was thrilled to find somebody who could actually talk about this because there just isn’t much information on Delta-8-THC, right now anyway.

I know I had a much better understanding of what it is and what it does after I spoke with Jordan, but that’s not where this ends. I have actually just taken some Delta-8-THC. So after the interview, this is where I sit down to do the editing process. So it’ll have some time to kick in and whatnot. I’m going to let you know exactly how my experience was. And if you don’t get an episode this week, then I guess you know what to tell my loved ones happened. So that’s a joke. I’m not scared at all, but we’ll see. And like I said, I’ll tell you all about my experience after my conversation with Jordan Lams.

Is Delta 8 THC legal?

Matt Baum:
Perfect. And where are you talking to me from right now?

Jordan Lams:
I am talking to you from Long Beach, California.

Matt Baum:
All right. Bet the weather’s a little nicer there. So, I’m in Omaha, Nebraska.

Jordan Lams:
It is hot today.

Matt Baum:
Oh, really? Well then I don’t want to hear-

Jordan Lams:
It’s like 90.

Matt Baum:
… no complaints out of you, sir.

Jordan Lams:
None.

Matt Baum:
So Jordan, I brought you on the show because we are now seeing Delta-8-THC sort of hitting a similar market to the CBD, CBN, CBG wellness market. And quite honestly, it’s so new that I really don’t know anything about it. And a lot of people have been asking questions, and I was actually really hesitant to even talk about it on the show because I didn’t even know if it was legal. So why don’t we just start… Before we even get into what it is, is Delta-8-THC legal?

Jordan Lams:
I think that probably depends on who you ask.

Matt Baum:
Okay.

Jordan Lams:
It’s definitely coming up as an item for debate at the moment. The argument amongst some law firms is that because it’s being, in this context that we’re talking about now, derived as a by-product of a process from CBD oil, that it’s not derived from cannabis, quote-unquote, and therefore it is legal. Chemically speaking, it’s still THC. It’s just not Delta-9-THC, which is the most prevalent psychoactive compound that is derived from the consumption of cannabis after you heat it up. So, yeah, I think it’s still up in the air.

Matt Baum:
So as far as I understand it, and again, I’m not a lawyer, but I live in Nebraska, which has some pretty strict cannabis laws, as you can imagine. And I’m pretty sure the law doesn’t say, “Well, Delta-9-THC, that’s the problem. That’s what’s illegal. And if you’re caught with Delta-9-THC, you’re going to jail, buddy.”, or whatever. I mean, marijuana has been basically decriminalized in Nebraska for the most part, but I don’t necessarily think the differences between a Delta-8 and a Delta-9… Is that where the nebulous thing comes in right now?

Jordan Lams:
That’s I think the… That and the fact that it’s a derivative of CBD in this context is… the wedge with which some attorneys are trying to force their argument through. And that differentiation between Delta-9 versus Delta-8 in some jurisdictions, it is delineated very specifically-

Matt Baum:
Really?

Jordan Lams:
… as still being considered THC. Yeah. So it varies market to market.

Matt Baum:
Okay.

Jordan Lams:
Particularly in more regulated markets where you actually have licensed businesses that do cultivate and extract. They’re more likely to specify, but in places where decriminalization those are usually kind of broad stroke legislations. And so you don’t always have that level of specificity.

The chemistry behind Delta 8 THC

Matt Baum:
Now, again, I’m not asking you to play a cop or a lawyer. These are strictly opinions here that we’re talking about but in other cases… And I’ve spoken to not too long ago, actually, I spoke to a guy that works in a lab in Oregon, and they do a lot of testing to make sure that what is actually in the bottle of CBD is in the bottle of CBD. And he was telling me one of the things that he’s noticed with Delta-8-THC, because they are taking the CBD and affecting it chemically and changing it into a different chemical that in and of itself could be illegal as well, based on laws that were made to stop people from say, buying cough medicine and turning it into meth or something. Is there any worry [crosstalk 00:05:04] about that?

Jordan Lams:
Definitely, what it reminds me of is the early days of the California medical market, before we had regulation. It was very specific in the state statute, as well as at the federal level that manufacturing of cannabis products using solvents was illegal. And so there was a contingent of attorneys, again, that took the position that CO2 because it’s not alcohol or a solvent by the maybe the more traditional sense that it didn’t qualify for that. And that was a bit of a, well maybe more than a bit of a loophole that they were trying to-

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Jordan Lams:
… exploit-

Matt Baum:
I was going to say.

Jordan Lams:
… but they got a lot of buy-in across the industry in that thinking because it was fairly dominant law firms, at least in the space at the time that were suggesting this. And so it actually led to the proliferation of CO2 extraction throughout the industry. That coupled with the scientific community really does use super-critical and sub-critical CO2 extraction in a lot of different laboratory applications-

Matt Baum:
Okay, real quick. I don’t mean to interrupt you-

Jordan Lams:
… it didn’t stop people from getting prosecuted.

Matt Baum:
I don’t mean to interrupt you that’s seriously-

Jordan Lams:
No problem.

Matt Baum:
… the reason why CO2 extraction took off the way it did?

Jordan Lams:
It’s definitely one of the big contributing factors, yeah.

Matt Baum:
No kidding.

Jordan Lams:
The flip to that, though, is that if you talk to any analytical chemist or real… organic chemist that’s got a lot of lab experience, supercritical and sub-critical CO2 is usually the go-to methodology. That being said, if you’re a real, real consumer of cannabis products, unless you’re using very hard to find subcritical CO2 extractions, you’re likely to have a version of a product that is vastly inferior, subjectively of course, to what a hydrocarbon extraction or even a solventless extraction or water extraction is what they call solvent less would produce. And even then, on the objective side CO2, you’re forcing a physical reaction that’s just ripping everything off the plant. Whereas hydrocarbon, it’s like nature’s lock and key. Cannabinoids, terpenes, those are hydrocarbons. So that’s a perfect chemical reaction where you’re only getting what you want, and you’re post-processing is far less. Whereas with CO2, you get everything and the kitchen sink-

Matt Baum:
Gotcha.

Jordan Lams:
… depending on the parameters of the extraction.

What is Delta 8, anyway?

Matt Baum:
Okay. So let’s get into it. Delta-8-THC, give me a broad spectrum, [inaudible 00:00:00] doubt view. What is it?

Jordan Lams:
So there’s… It’s just another cannabinoid. It is a tetrahydrocannabinol. So it’s a THC molecule, but Delta-8 is just a different isomer of THC. And oftentimes it’s found not necessarily as a degrative product of a Delta-9-THC, but oftentimes in certain processes where there’s a lot of heat and pressure used to do distillation or various types of… I guess, processing you end up potentially oftentimes by accident converting some of that Delta-9 into Delta-8. And then there was, over the last couple of years, a trend where it was being done intentionally. Now, not intentionally because people wanted the Delta-8 outcome, but in the process that you use to really, really tighten the fraction as it’s called in chemistry, the fraction of the chemicals that you’re trying to remove. As you tighten that down and make it more pure, you’re putting it under really extreme conditions. And what people were shooting for has been come to known as water clear. So it’s a cannabis oil that literally in a jar looks almost as clear as water, even the way it refracts light.
There’s no weird effect to the way that you see through the product. And that being said, in doing that process a lot of times, not always, but a lot of times, you end up causing that conversion from Delta-9 to Delta-8. And then from there, I think that’s what spurred the, “Oh, oh. Hey, isomerization is really a thing that we can do with these cannabinoids. What if you can take CBD, which is abundant and cheap, and turn it into something of higher value.”.

Matt Baum:
So this is a byproduct. It’s not something that occurs naturally? It’s actually a byproduct?

Jordan Lams:
It can occur naturally. So here’s the thing about even Delta-9. Delta-9 is an activated version of the acidic form of THC. So if you were to take a raw cannabis flower that’s loaded up with THC. It’s not usually much Delta-9. It’s not usually activated. It’s in its acidic form. And when you heat that flower up, either in a joint or in the oven, making an edible or in a bowl, when the flame hits it, you’re doing what’s called decarboxylating the THC. Taking that acidic carboxyl chain and removing it, turning it into the active ingredient-

Matt Baum:
That’s my favorite thing to do with it.

Jordan Lams:
… psychoactive. Exactly. And it’s not dissimilar here. That being said, it could occur naturally. It’s just very rare. So similarly to… For decades, nobody did anything with cannabis except for it to get max THC.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Jordan Lams:
So even for a while, CBD strains were not very available. And it took several years of the CBD industry growing into its own for that to become a readily available genome where it occurs in high concentrations. And similarly, now you see people moving into areas of CBG, CBV, THCV, trying to get those expressions of minor cannabinoids and turn them into majors. But Delta-8 is not one that has been bred for that. So there’s not a lot of, maybe even any to my firsthand knowledge, occurrences of it naturally into the available spectrum of strains that exist.

Matt Baum:
Got you. So when you take regular THC cannabis, and you smoke it, you are sort of doing the same process that you would undergo in the lab to create Delta-8 from Delta-9. Okay, I think I said Delta-8 the first time. When you take THC cannabis and smoke it to get high, you’re effectively doing the same type of process that would take place in a lab where they convert Delta-9 into Delta-8 for other reasons.

Jordan Lams:
Yeah, well, again, it’s a combination of certain things, of heat and pressure. Really that’s the easiest way to simplify it. Think different ratios of heat and pressure, different amounts, and different timelines, and what they call residency times, which are the exposure to those conditions, can impact the way that a molecule will change.

Matt Baum:
Got you.

Jordan Lams:
Now what they’re doing with CBD to Delta-8 is not dissimilar from a high-level perspective, but it is a lot more involved. You’re not going to be able to… Where you could take Delta-9 and turn it into Delta-8 for THCA and turn it into Delta-9 at home in a very, very basic setup. To really get pure CBD into very pure slice of Delta-8 is a little bit more involved. It’s a little bit more expertise-driven-

Matt Baum:
Of course.

Jordan Lams:
… There’s a little bit of an art to it, honestly. It is chemistry, but there… We learned anything from Breaking Bad, right? The last 0.3%, it’s where all the magic is.

Does Delta 8 THC Make You High?

Matt Baum:
Right. Right. So the idea here is to basically take plants that would normally create high levels of CBD because they’re cheaper than plants that would create high levels of THC and create a different THC. Is the experience different? Does it get you high?

Jordan Lams:
It definitely gets you high.

Matt Baum:
Okay.

Jordan Lams:
I have some firsthand experience using Delta-8, and I got to say it was very pleasant. I was actually asked by a producer of CBD who’s making it into Delta-8… Is interested in us manufacturing products and firsthand says, “Well, let me look into the legality here because this is an interesting one.”. But we played around with the material and made some ingestible products with it. We made some gummies, actually. We do a lot of gummy production using regular Delta-9. And I got to say the experience was really pleasant. Maybe a little bit tempered of a potency, even at the same dosage rate. It didn’t seem and granted, it’s a limited experience, so it’s by no means a clinical trial here-

Matt Baum:
Sure, sure. We’re… Neither of us are… We’re playing scientists on the internet. We’re not actual scientists.

Jordan Lams:
Exactly. Play one on TV. Yeah, but for me, it was really, it was maybe a little bit more mellow, a little bit… less imposing upon my general sense of being. And very relaxing… Myself and my partner use gummies every night for sleep. And when we have the dosage dialed in really, really love it. Sometimes, you do a little too much, and you’re a little groggy the next day or not enough, and then you don’t really get the impact. This one was a shot in the dark of dosage. And the effect was really, really nice. And my partner’s not a heavy user. And her experience was really, really great. It wasn’t an overwhelming thing, and that was, I think, a 10-milligram dose that we each tried.

Matt Baum:
Okay, but very similar to what you would get from 10 milligrams of, say, a gummy of THC. But maybe… Is it a head and body high feeling? You said it’s tempered a little bit. Can you go into that?

Jordan Lams:
Yeah, I can. And I want to caveat it with that, one of my biggest soapboxes that I stand on is that cannabis, CBD, hemp, THC, whatever it is, it’s so personalized-

Matt Baum:
Yes.

Jordan Lams:
… so the way it is-

Matt Baum:
Without a doubt.

Jordan Lams:
… for me may be-

Matt Baum:
Without a doubt.

Jordan Lams:
… completely different for those out there listening. And, to me, that process of discovering for yourself is as important as that end result because it’s changing that paradigm of figuring out your being, your health, your body, and the way it reacts to these-

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Jordan Lams:
… different inputs.

Matt Baum:
I mean, even with [crosstalk 00:14:51] CBD, we say, “Start low and go slow.”. And that’s… We repeat that all the time. So this would be the same, of course, the same theory here, start low, go slow, see how it makes you feel.

Jordan Lams:
Yeah. And remember, it’s still THC. So don’t think just because it’s coming from CBD that it’s so vastly different, but I wouldn’t describe it as a head effect for me. It was more… I would say more general relaxation. Like sometimes, when you take a really great full-spectrum CBD product, you can actually observe a… shift in your perception and all of that.

Matt Baum:
Definitely.

Jordan Lams:
It’s still not, it’s not quite high-

Matt Baum:
Right, [crosstalk 00:15:32] it feels more body-driven almost-

Jordan Lams:
Yeah, and more like-

Matt Baum:
… as opposed to head-driven-

Jordan Lams:
… holistic-

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Jordan Lams:
This is more similar to that, but still with definitely a psychoactive element to it like, “Oh yeah, I’m feeling an intoxicant here to some level.”-

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Jordan Lams:
… but not as… sometimes as overt as Delta-9THC can be if that’s a good way to put it.

Matt Baum:
Okay. Yeah.

Jordan Lams:
Sometimes THC just comes to me like, “Oh, and now I’m high.”.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Jordan Lams:
And this was more like, “Oh yeah, I’m high.” but not too high and very relaxed and just a great sense of well-being, I would say.

Matt Baum:
Do you know, I mean, speaking on a chemical level, does it affect the body the same way that THC would?

Jordan Lams:
In most ways, the way that it binds with the different CB1 receptors, I would say… That I would speculate that it is very similar. That being said, there’s not a lot of data out there. There’s not a lot on cannabis in general, but Delta-8 specifically, there hasn’t been access to any volume of it to even observe anecdotally what it’s doing to people up until really recently. So it’s a little bit of uncharted territories, but if we know anything about the broad spectrum of cannabinoids that do exist, is they all slot into their own unique place depending on you as a person-

Matt Baum:
Sure, sure.

Jordan Lams:
… individually. But, they all have their role, and we’re slowly but surely discovering more and more what part each of them has to play.

Potential legal issues around Delta 8

Matt Baum:
So Moxie, are you guys… You’re in the Delta-8-THC game.

Jordan Lams:
We’re not in the Delta-8 world. We’ve been exploring it with a couple people. I think we always air on a pretty extreme conservative side of legal interpretation.

Matt Baum:
I think you have to. Right? I mean, that’s just safe.

Jordan Lams:
Yeah, well, and we’re a licensed THC manufacturer and cultivator in a number of different states. So sometimes, even in California, for instance, as a THC operator, ironically, we’re not allowed to process hemp. Now it seems pretty silly, but that’s just the way, and it is silly, but that’s the way that the regulations were drafted-

Matt Baum:
Yeah [crosstalk 00:17:31] Well, it’s completely different [crosstalk 00:17:31] though. What are you talking about? It’s completely different.

Jordan Lams:
It doesn’t even look at all the same.

Matt Baum:
No. Or smell the same either. So-

Jordan Lams:
No, I always try to bring it back for people that are really trying to understand. There’s not really a difference in the plant here. There’s different versions of it that grow different ways and have different chemical expressions of their contents, but it’s all the same cannabis plant. And it really just is incredible. The broad appeal and application that it has. And there’s still so much left to discover.

Matt Baum:
Oh, of course. Absolutely. I mean, that’s what the show is all about. One thing I want to ask, do you foresee any trouble? It seems like one of the main things that the CBD and the hemp market has tried to push forward is, “We are not marijuana. We don’t get you high. That’s not what we do. And that is why you don’t have to worry about it. This is a treatment for anxiety. This is a treatment for sleep disorders. This is… Or just whole body wellness or whatever, but it’s not marijuana. It’s not marijuana. It’s not marijuana. Oh, by the way, now we can get you high.”.
Do you see any problem there? It makes me really nervous, honestly. And again-

Jordan Lams:
Yeah, I can.

Matt Baum:
… we’re very green-friendly on the show, and I’m very green friendly. So all of it, but at the same time, while we’re trying to… convince the FDA, while we’re trying to convince states like South Dakota and Nebraska who are super hardcore about this stuff, do you foresee any trouble here?

Jordan Lams:
I can’t imagine there won’t be at least some.

Matt Baum:
Right?

Jordan Lams:
I mean, it’s a pretty harsh reversal. Particularly when you think about, say, Kentucky, right? That’s Mitch McConnell’s back yard, and he’s been a big proponent of hemp but a staunch opponent of cannabis.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Jordan Lams:
And to think that where he advocated for his community to have a new driver of economics and even some level of health benefit, that all of a sudden now that’s going to backdoor into the intoxicant world. I can’t imagine that that’s going to be something that really excites him or others like him.

Matt Baum:
I think this is worrisome, quite honestly. And maybe I’m just being a pessimist, but I’m afraid it could set back… Some other CBD purveyors and CBG purveyors and people that are pushing to get that more mainstream and come into food and beverage and other things. I’m afraid that something like this could scare the FDA and have them back off and say, “All right before we legalize-” I mean, it’s legal, of course, but, “Before we say, here’s your regulations and here’s how we want it done. We need to make sure this never happens. This doesn’t happen. So we’re scrapping everything and starting over.”. Does that scare you?

Jordan Lams:
Yeah. A little bit. And it opens the can of worms of like, “Well, what else can they make from this?”.

Matt Baum:
Right [crosstalk 00:20:17] exactly. Next thing you know, they’re going to be making PCP out of it and feeding it to Antifa or whatever, right?

Jordan Lams:
And too, it’s… it’s interesting because at the end of the day… they’re trying so hard to control something that… is really vastly uncontrollable.

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Jordan Lams:
And up until this point, I think the hemp industry did a pretty good job of drawing a very clear box around it, of what it was and what it wasn’t. And this is a really harsh 180.

Matt Baum:
That’s what it seems like [crosstalk 00:20:55].

Jordan Lams:
Yeah, I can’t imagine it’s not going to come with some trials and tribulations. And moreover, I think the consumers are confused. I think people are looking at it like, “Oh, it’s a derivative CBD, and it’s legal, so it’s not going to get me high in the same way.”, and then you have people that dose too much, and it can, it can scare them off altogether, which is one of the biggest challenges with THC is when people dose too much and then they never want to go back to it.

Matt Baum:
Yeah, yeah.

Jordan Lams:
But the reality is they could get a lot of good from it if they just find that balance-

Matt Baum:
Right. Learn how to use it. I will say, as someone who is very aware of the laws and knows a lot about this from just doing this show, when I opened a box of Delta-8-THC that was sent to me, I didn’t know what I was getting, but they said, “We’re going to send you a bunch of CBD stuff that we have.”, and that was one of them. And I took it out, and I said out loud, “Is it legal to send this through the mail?”. I didn’t know. And I’m still not real sure. And I guess we’re just going to have to wait and see where this goes. Speaking from your company’s standpoint, at what point would a company like Moxy feel safe and feel cool going into this? What are you looking for to happen first?

Jordan Lams:
I think, for us to be able to receive Delta-8 in from a hemp producer, we’d need, at the very least, a strong level legal opinion. But some clarity from the federal government on how the farm bill applies to this would be helpful because there’s the whole… That’s just the first part, getting it in. Then secondarily, we would need clearance from our state or local regulators to be able to process it. Because, as I mentioned, even with hemp, technically in California, you can’t process it. In Nevada, however, we can. You just have to have a separate hemp handler’s certificate. So-

Matt Baum:
Good lord.

Jordan Lams:
… it’s a little… It would be a mixed bag, a little different all over, depending on what operation of ours we were talking about. But clarity in any regard would be helpful. I think.

Matt Baum:
Yeah, just a little bit. I mean, even if it’s someone getting arrested, so we go, “Oh, okay. There it’s… Okay. So now we have to be careful. Got it.”.

New cannabinoids and the war on drugs

Jordan Lams:
And where they need the most guidance is at the law enforcement level, because I mean, imagine the poor, beat cop that has no idea of the difference in the visual-

Matt Baum:
Absolutely.

Jordan Lams:
… it’s oil. It looks just like the CBD, looks just like the THC.

Matt Baum:
Right, I [crosstalk 00:23:07] mean, right now [crosstalk 00:23:09] if you’re like, “Oh look, no, these joints that I have on me, these are CBD joints. That’s all they are. They’re for my back pain or whatever. And they’re completely legal.”. It’s hard enough for a cop to look at that and go, “Okay, I’m going to take your word for it.”. Now, when you pull out a package that says THC on it and go, “No, no, no. This is cool. It’s not that THC.”. Just… It’s-

Jordan Lams:
Where it gets interesting too is, and I’m not sure how it works, but the field tests that they have, which are notorious for false positives for one, but also will this trigger a regular THC field test? And does that mean that you’ll have someone that might have issues of driving under the influence charges based on the way that one of these tests pops up?

Matt Baum:
Absolutely.

Jordan Lams:
And so-

Matt Baum:
Or if your drug tested at work.

Jordan Lams:
… it’s got to get addressed quickly.

Matt Baum:
If you’re drug tested at work? Is this going to come up as THC on your drug test? Is it going to come up as-

Jordan Lams:
I’ve heard that it doesn’t.

Matt Baum:
Really?

Jordan Lams:
I can’t validate that, but that’s what I’ve been told is that, in fact, it does not trigger in a regular drug test, through urine analysis, but-

Matt Baum:
Interesting.

Jordan Lams:
… I’m not sure. It’s early days.

Matt Baum:
Yeah. We’ll have to look into it. I just feel like we’ve got a real sticky wicket here with this one. And I don’t mean to sound prude, and I don’t mean to sound pessimistic, but it just seems like we really, and when I say we, I mean, the larger cannabis space really needs to be careful. Just with the amount of work that they have done saying, “We’re hemp, we’re not marijuana, we’re hemp, we’re not marijuana.” And now, “Oh, yeah. But we can also do something kind of like marijuana.” So, keep-

Jordan Lams:
Yeah, no [crosstalk 00:24:40] I agree. And I don’t want to make the caution of the unclear deter people from even pushing the issue on an advocacy side, because where things get really interesting as we do evolve our understanding of the cannabinoids that exist at large is that various ratios of them together, that affect the entourage affect in different-

Matt Baum:
Oh, absolutely.

Jordan Lams:
… capacities. It’s still such a huge amount of discovery that we have left to do. And getting access to large amounts of pure molecules like this is critical in that development and understanding of how things work and then ultimately in the formulation of combinatorial treatments. So, on one hand, we need to figure out what it is and how we’re going to deal with it now from a legal and marketing, and other perspectives. But on the flip, now we’ve got access to something that we didn’t before at scale and inexpensively, and that-

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Jordan Lams:
… opens up a whole slew of opportunity.

Matt Baum:
Yeah. I mean, it’s definitely cool, and we’ll see where it goes. And I think you… It sounds like you guys are being very level-headed about this, and you’re playing it safe for now because you have to. So, we want to advocate, and we want to push, but at the same time, we got to play this stupid governmental game, unfortunately. And even that will be better for everybody.

Jordan Lams:
Yeah. And it’s a process, right? I think our industry because we come from being the misfits by nature, those willing to stand up in the face of adversity for what’s right. Or what we believe is okay for ourselves as individuals and our capacity as adults. But I got to say too, having… I’m 31. I’ve been in the business for about 13 years, which is a lifetime in this industry, and going into it; I was probably the pessimistic young adult that didn’t really believe in the system and fighting the good fight. And 13 years later, I can say I’ve been able to affect some real change by just getting out there and having conversations like this with the stakeholders who have pen to paper.

Matt Baum:
Absolutely.

Jordan Lams:
And just don’t be jaded at the end of the day. If there’s something there and it can be done safely, you just have to stick to your guns. You have to stand up in the face of adversity and advocate for what’s right. And these natural therapies that are safe, despite even some level of intoxication, when using a small subset of them can have absolutely life-changing impacts for people. So we’ve got a little bit of a road ahead to deal with this one specifically because I think it came fairly unexpectedly.

Matt Baum:
Yeah. It seems like this [crosstalk 00:27:11] year.

Jordan Lams:
But I’m so-

Matt Baum:
It just popped up.

Jordan Lams:
… optimistic.

Matt Baum:
Right. Last… I feel like this just popped up [crosstalk 00:27:14] in the last six months.

Jordan Lams:
Nothing forces ingenuity like necessity. Right?

Matt Baum:
I suppose.

Jordan Lams:
And I think with COVID and the crazy turbulence that our industry and the world has gone through this year, it’s caused some very unique thinking to surface. And this is one of those really intriguing new opportunities.

Matt tries Delta 8 THC on the podcast

Matt Baum:
Yeah… I want to send a huge thanks to Jordan for coming on and doing such a wonderful job explaining all about what is Delta-8-THC. We’ll have links to Moxie in the show notes. If you want to check that out and more information about Jordan too. But now, let’s get into it…

It’s been a little while since I’ve taken the Delta-8-THC, and I’m still here. I have to say; I don’t feel impaired. I have some experience. I mean, with marijuana, I’m not going to lie. This is a green friendly household I live in… And this is a different kind of high. I definitely feel high. It’s there, but it is more of a body high kind of what Jordan explained. I feel very relaxed, very at ease, not so much clouded in my head. I might not take something like this and drive just to be safe, but I also don’t feel drunk or lightheaded or dizzy. Any of the things that someone who doesn’t experiment with THC very often can have happen when they try an edible, for example. The Delta-8-THC that I took was a tincture. I’m not going to name the company, but it was a flavored tincture. And you take it much like you would take CBD.

I put it under my tongue for about a minute. Let it sit. The suggested dosage on the bottle was one milliliter, which, according to the label, is 11 milligrams of nano Delta-8-THC. And it also has three milligrams of nano Delta-9-THC, both of which we spoke about in our conversation.
Now, maybe when I go back, and I listen to this, I’m going to think, “Oh, wow. I sounded really funny.”, but I feel like I’m talking, okay. I feel like I’m still parsing out this information as best as I normally do. I’m not going to say I’m an excellent podcaster, but I do the job.

Now normally, whenever you’re trying new products, we always say to start low and go slow. Which, of course, I did not because I wanted to get a real feel for what happens when you take the suggested dose of… And I got to say; this isn’t bad at all.

I feel very relaxed. I have these sort of waves that are running through my body of relaxation that sort of start, what feels like just below my neck maybe. And they carry down through your chest and through your hands. And it’s really just nice and a chill way to end the day, I guess.

It seems like this hit a little slower than THC, that you would smoke or vape. And it really gently just sort of rolls into it. Whereas sometimes if you’re smoking or vaping, boom, you’re just high. The same thing can happen with an edible that you take for the first time. You feel fine. You feel fine. You feel fine. Wham, you’re way too high.

That doesn’t seem to be the case here. Now, again, I’m an experienced THC user. So that’s why I went ahead with the one-milliliter dose. But if you’re going to try this, I would definitely start maybe at half a dose just to see how you react to it. My first experience reactions here, I got to say this isn’t bad at all. And I kind of enjoy it.

So far, I’m giving my first experience with Delta-8-THC a thumbs up. Is it good for the market? Is it going to give CBD a bad name? Well, that all remains to be seen, I guess.

Final thoughts from Matt And Does He Recommends Delta 8?

Matt Baum:
That brings us to the end of this episode of Matt Does New Drugs On The Internet. I hope you enjoyed it. And if my parents are listening, I’m not going to apologize. You know who I am.
Next week on the show, we are going to be talking about pharmaceutical CBD, but specifically a co-crystal that has been used to make CBD more bioavailable, meaning easier for your body to absorb. We’ll tell you all about it next week. And if it is what the people that I talk to says it is, then this co-crystal could blow the whole CBD market wide open.

If you need more Ministry Of Hemp news in your life before that, head over to our site ministryofhemp.com, where we’ve got a fantastic article, all about CBN. It’s another new cannabinoid, that’s very hot. That is being marketed as helping people sleep.

We’ve got a whole article called CBN. What is cannabinol, and why is it getting so much attention? And you should also check out a show that I did a couple episodes ago with Ethan Carr, from Slumber CBN, all about how it can help you sleep. Really cool stuff. And again, those will both be in the show notes. Speaking of show notes here at the Ministry of Hemp, we believe that an accessible world is better for everyone. So we have a full written transcript of this show in the notes as well.

Be sure to follow us on Twitter and Facebook and check out our Instagram because we’ve got another giveaway coming up real soon here. And I think they’re going to let me announce the winner on the show, which is cool, makes me feel special, right? And if you really want to help us out, please rate this show wherever you’re getting your podcasts from, give us a star or even a little written review, because it helps move us up in the search algorithm and get this show in front of people that are looking for hemp news and information about things like CBD, CBN, and Delta-8-THC, even.

But if you really want to make a difference, head over to Patreon/ministryofhemp and become a Ministry of Hemp insider. It gets you access to podcast extras, to early news articles, to articles and information that we don’t even put on the site. But most importantly, it makes you a hemp crusader helping us to spread the good word of hemp and how it can change the world.

All right, that’s it. For now, remember to take care of yourself, take care of others, and make good decisions, will you? This is a slightly stoned Matt Baum with the Ministry of Hemp signing off.

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