Currently, the CBD market is completely unregulated. Almost anyone with some capital can get into the CBD business, and there’s been a glut of raw materials (raw hemp extract) available at falling prices over the past year, especially if you’re not too picky about the quality. 

The result? Consumers struggle to know whether the CBD products they’re buying are legitimate or effective. Between completely fake products, and those that are misleadingly advertised, lots of people get turned off of CBD entirely, even if they might benefit from it. That’s unfortunate because, while there are a lot of overinflated claims out there, there’s ample evidence that CBD helps a lot of people.

While we normally focus on the positive aspects of the industry, and the highest quality CBD products, we also think it’s important to warn our readers … and put pressure on the hemp industry to do better.

Table of Contents

• Why are CBD scams such a big problem?
• CBD-infused clothing, pillows and bedsheets
• “Immune Boosting” claims about CBD & CBD hand sanitizer
• Multi-Level Marketing (MLM) and CBD
• Fake CBD Products
• Lead-filled & Impure CBD Supplements
• How do we fix this? A call for transparency & quality

Why are there so many CBD oil scams?

Once an obscure supplement of dubious legality, CBD has gone completely mainstream. A survey published in August 2019 by Consumer Reports suggested that 40% of people in their 20s have tried CBD, and even 15% of people 65 or older have tried it. Many more people are curious about CBD, or at least have heard of its potential. And an amendment to the 2018 Farm Bill fully legalized hemp-derived CBD products, removing much of the remaining reluctance consumers had about trying it.

Unfortunately, when you combine unprecedented popularity with a lack of regulations, it leaves the market open for grifters, scammers, and a lot of people just looking for a quick buck. We frequently hear from readers that have purchased or considered purchasing scammy products from fly-by-night CBD brands.  

At the time we’re writing this, the FDA is preparing to present its guidelines for consumer CBD products, after receiving approval from the White House. However, we expect these guidelines to be imperfect in their first draft and require a lot of tweaking and negotiation with the industry before the market is truly stable and safe. 

Beyond that, greedy brands are forever looking for loopholes that let them continue to exploit undereducated CBD buyers. The FDA simply does not have the resources or the power to shut down every problematic or misleading product on the supplement market — powerful lobbyists have ensured that. 

In other words, even FDA regulations won’t make all these CBD scams and bad ideas disappear.

#1 Scam: CBD-infused pillows, mattresses, and clothing

A CBD-infused mattress. It’s something that would have seemed like a joke a few years ago, that someone might have used to make fun of the tendency to stick CBD in everything.

Now it’s a reality. A very expensive reality! In a way it’s almost ingenious: mattress brands struggle to differentiate themselves from one another since most use almost identical technology. The same is true for CBD oil. So why not combine the two?

Except it’s completely ridiculous. In the case of a mattress, consumers are meant to believe that CBD inside it can not just penetrate your skin, but any bedsheets, mattress covers, and pillowcases you might use. Even if the products did work as advertised, they’re costly and short-lived. One brand charges $60 for a CBD-infused pillow and $900 (or more) for a twin mattress. For that price, you could buy a regular mattress online and still have money left over for multiple bottles of high strength CBD tincture. 

Speaking of which, you can simply look at a bottle of tincture to see how much you have left. How would you know when the product has become “depleted” and what are you to do with them then? Throw the whole mattress away?

CBD-infused clothing or plastic “CBD bracelets” are a similar scam, with many of the same problems. Even if these products did work, they seem to encourage a culture of disposability and conspicuous consumption that we can hardly afford during our climate emergency.

#2 Scam: Making ‘immune-boosting’ claims and selling CBD hand sanitizer during a pandemic

We covered this topic in more detail in our article on CBD and the novel coronavirus. 

While some (very preliminary) research that suggests certain cannabinoids might be beneficial in treating some symptoms, there’s no scientific evidence that everyday use of over-the-counter CBD supplements will do any good.

We think CBD can be extremely helpful during this stressful time. Cannabidiol can ease symptoms of anxiety or stress, help us sleep better, among other ways it might benefit us. But it’s very, very unlikely that it can keep you from getting sick if you’re exposed to the virus. 

We’re revisiting it here because these shady products didn’t disappear as shortages on regular sanitizer ended and we learned more about COVID-19. Instead, they’ve proliferated.

Target sells an 8oz bottle of hand sanitizer for $5.00. That’s the fancy kind with added nice-smelling essential oils. Meanwhile, a typical 8oz bottle of CBD-infused hand sanitizer sells for $19.99. Even “on sale” for $9.99, it’s still twice the price.

It’s true that CBD hand sanitizer is unlikely to hurt anyone, as long as it’s made using safe ingredients. It’s still a waste of money. Frankly, it seems like an excuse to sell surplus CBD during a pandemic.

All that aside, a number of reputable CBD brands now make regular hand sanitizer available for cheap or for free. We applaud those companies for taking a small step that may actually help folks stay healthy.

#3 Bad Idea: Multi-level marketing (MLM) CBD brands sell the American dream, but can they deliver?

Multi-level marketing CBD brands make our industry look bad.  

If you’re wondering what multi-level marketing (also known as direct sales) is … remember Amway or Tupperware Parties? Maybe someone in your family sells essential oils or tights from a popular MLM brand. Now apply this same business model to CBD. 

These brands sell a product, but they’re also selling the idea of becoming a salesperson. People pay a fee to join and then more money to buy CBD supplements to sell. Members are encouraged to not just sell supplements, but also get friends and family to join too. 

The MLM business model is not ethical or sustainable.

Unfortunately, there are only so many people in the world who can, or should sell CBD. Mathematically speaking, it’s impossible to keep recruiting forever. In almost every MLM, members spend far more money buying products than they make selling them, or from recruiting others. Many MLMs resemble cults more than they do legitimate businesses, putting immense pressure on members to keep spending money instead of leaving.

Let’s be clear: we’ve no reason to believe that MLM CBD brands are creating bad CBD products. Many of them seem to buy quality raw materials and perform the kind of quality testing we look for in a brand. We simply don’t believe their profit model is ethical, or sustainable.

This is likely to be the most controversial section of the article. MLM CBD brands are commonplace. Some belong to influential lobbying groups in our industry. We think it’s important to say this anyway. Amid record-breaking unemployment, we think it’s irresponsible to sell people this very expensive but elusive dream of financial freedom.

If you want to learn more about MLMs and how they hurt their members, we strongly recommend the first season of The Dream podcast.

#4 Fraud: A flood of fake CBD products on Amazon & beyond

Hardly a week goes by without us hearing from someone asking about a CBD brand. Many of them seem reputable, and it’s just impossible for us to review every single brand out there. But some of them are clearly frauds.

Brands that spam people by email to buy questionable products. Some don’t even have a stable website. They just put up a crude storefront, make a quick profit, and disappear. 

The problem is widespread. Even Amazon.com is full of fake CBD products. Most of them are simply hemp seed oil, a substance that is nutritious but lacks the concentrated cannabinoids found in a hemp extract supplement. Many of these fake CBD products claim to contain literally impossible amounts of CBD, like 50,000 milligrams inside a one ounce bottle.

You also see these kinds of CBD products in gas stations, pipe shops, we even heard of a food truck that also sold CBD on the side. You should leave selling CBD to the experts: experienced, reputable brands that prioritize transparency.

Even major CBD brands sometimes go wrong. One study by Leafly found numerous products that under-delivered on their CBD. A few didn’t contain any CBD at all. Some had too much!

We only partner with CBD brands that offer third-party lab results, so customers can verify the product’s contents. Whenever possible, we’ve also run our own third-party lab tests on the CBD products we review. You’ll find the results in each review.

#5 Fraud: Lead-filled CBD products put consumers at risk

And then there are products that can actively harm consumers. In July 2020, the FDA recalled a lengthy list of CBD products, for both humans and animals, because they were high in lead. Unfortunately, there are probably other harmful products out there that slipped through the cracks. 

The FDA recalled dozens of lead-tainted CBD products for both humans and animals in summer 2020.

Hemp is known to be especially effective at absorbing heavy metals and other toxins from the soil. That’s great if you want to clean up pollution, but bad if the hemp you grow is going to end up in people’s bodies. Lead can also end up in products in other ways, both through other tainted ingredients and during the manufacturing process.

Lead exposure is serious. According to the FDA, “lead is poisonous to humans and can affect people of any age or health status,” but is especially dangerous to vulnerable populations like children, pregnant people, and people with pre-existing conditions. Lead builds up in your system over time, so even low-level exposure can be dangerous down the road.

While most people selling lead-tainted products probably aren’t doing so maliciously, there’s simply no excuse for putting your customers at risk of serious health problems, even permanent neurological damage.

CBD brands and buyers must put quality and transparency first

It’s true that the FDA may soon impose new regulations on the CBD industry. But that won’t absolve the industry of the responsibility to put extra care into making the best possible supplements.

Anytime a product becomes as popular as CBD, there’s a great temptation to use it to turn a quick profit without worrying about the quality of your product. With increasing competition and a saturated market, there’s a lot of pressure to cut corners. 

The CBD industry can and must do better. Hemp returned to the U.S. starting in 2014, and it’s been fully legal since the end of 2018. When it comes to CBD, it’s past time to develop best practices and stick to them rigorously.

In the long term, we are sure that the brands which prioritize quality, transparency and care for their customers will survive, while others fall away.

What consumers can do to hold hemp brands accountable & stay safe

CBD consumers need to keep being careful and doing their research before buying any products. We suspect this will remain true even after the FDA releases their guidelines for CBD.

Fortunately, there are resources available — like our website — to help you make more informed purchasing decisions. If you use these tools, you’ll be able to avoid CBD scams and find the right, safe CBD product for your needs.

Here’s a small selection of some of the resources we’ve created to help you make informed purchasing decisions:

• Our complete introduction to CBD outlines a lot of vital, basic information on this supplement.

One way to help improve the CBD industry is to “vote with your money”: only buy quality products from brands that make it easy to find information or get more help.

The post CBD Oil Scams Run Wild: A Look At 5 CBD Scams, Frauds & Bad Ideas appeared first on Ministry of Hemp.

First, we look at developing Texas hemp regulations and how it could change the future of the plant in the Lone Star State. Matt talks to James Higdon, owner of Cornbread Hemp in Kentucky, about his concerns as an out-of-state hemp producer. James also appeared in episode 32 of the show, our Kentucky Hemp podcast episode.

For a closer look at the Texas hemp regulations, we also got a brief statement from Coleman Hemphill, president of the Texas Hemp Industries Association. Hemp is legal in Texas, but the new regulations could dramatically alter the shape of this fast-growing industry.

To close out this episode, we get an entrepreneur’s perspective on being a hemp producer in Texas from Micheal Tullis, owner of a small hemp boutique. Early Fruit Hemp Co. is finding success in Lubbock Texas despite the small, sometimes hostile market.

Texas to rule on Lone Star hemp regulations

The Texas Department of State Health Services is preparing to make sweeping regulatory changes to how hemp is manufactured, labeled and sold in the state of Texas. Here’ the major proposed changes, summarized from a post by Texas NORML:

• A ban on the “manufacture, processing, distribution, or retail sale of consumable hemp products for smoking”
• Stringent licensing requirements for CBD retailers
• Stringent testing requirements for CBD products sold in state
• Strict requirements for the labeling of hemp products
• Regulations which could restrict sales of CBD products from states like Kentucky and Colorado

Matt and Jim primarily talk about the labeling requirements, and the changes which could ban sales of products from his state. However, hemp advocates locally and nationwide are concerned about the entire set of changes.

We contacted Coleman Hemphill, president of the Texas Hemp Industries Association, but reached him too late to include him in this episode. However, he suggested the state is poorly equipped to implement these changes, since just 2 staff members are assigned to this aspect of the hemp program and no budget dollars have been set aside to implement the complex licensing and testing program.

In addition, Coleman thinks the new regulations might not withstand legal challenges, even if they do go into effect. Not only does he think these regulations clearly conflict with the 2018 Farm Bill which federally legalized hemp, they also cause substantial damage to existing Texas businesses. Both these factors are likely to be compelling in court. Finally, he told us that sales of all out-of-state hemp products should be safe for at least the remainder of 2020.

How to tell Texas to keep all forms of hemp fully legal

We’ll have more a deeper look at this story soon. In the meantime, you can leave a comment on the hemp regulations using this Action Network form or via the formal comment process. You can also call and leave a message for the Texas Department of State Health Services at (512) 231-5653. Coleman recommends both leaving a comment and calling for maximum effectiveness, but the deadline for formal comments is July 8, 2020 (Monday).

You’ve got hemp questions? We’ve got hemp answers!

Send us your hemp questions and you might hear them answered on one of our Hemp Q&A episodes. Send your written questions to us on Twitter, Facebook, matt@ministryofhemp.com, or call us and leave a message at 402-819-6417. Keep in mind, this phone number is for hemp questions only and any other inquiries for the Ministry of Hemp should be sent to info@ministryofhemp.com

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Texas Hemp Stories: Complete episode transcript

Below you’ll find the complete transcript of episode 42 of the Ministry of Hemp Podcast, “Texas Hemp Stories”:

Matt Baum:
I’m Matt Baum and this is the Ministry of Hemp podcast brought to you by ministryofhemp.com. America’s leading advocate for hemp and hemp education. (silence) Today on the show, we’re talking about Texas. Texas represents one of the largest hemp markets in the United States. Recently, there’s been some new regulations introduced that are a little, well unclear to say the least. Back in episode 32, I talked to Jim Higdon, he’s the cofounder of Cornbread Hemp out of Kentucky. He wrote a fantastic book about the history of hemp in Kentucky. He contacted me to tell me about these new regulations.

Troubling new Texas hemp regulations

Jim Higdon:
I’m confident that I’m still confused, but at least I’ve got some firm understanding of what it is I’m confused about and also everyone asks you like lots of dogs hearing noises for the first time. [crosstalk 00:01:06]

Matt Baum:
Right, right, right. I would say any good legislation should be like that though. Right? It should be completely confusing and absolutely unclear, so we can argue about what it actually means just in case we want it to mean something else. Right?

Jim Higdon:
It disappears by my reading to mean something bad. Everyone who should know this is like, “Well, I think I’ll look at that. That’s interesting.” Not like, “Oh, we looked at that and that’s not the case because of XYZ you’re not. Just like uh, uh.”

Matt Baum:
Right. So, let’s talk about it. As we understand it, what is being proposed and then we’ll talk about what that could possibly mean and what the issue is.

Jim Higdon:
As I understand it, talked with you from Louisville, Kentucky, the great state of Texas has already passed CBD legislation to legalize the sale of CBD products in Texas.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Jim Higdon:
What we’re looking at now is the Department of Health and Human Services maybe. The State Department of Health in Texas is issuing regulations on how that would go about. So, it’s the executive branch of the Texas state government setting the rules up for how that CBD industry will operate legally at Texas.

Matt Baum:
Got you.

New labeling requirements for Texas CBD sales

Jim Higdon:
Okay? So, law is passed. It’s legal. This is just the framework for how that would go about. In the regulations, it says out of state CBD products can be sold in Texas. Well, before we get to that, before that, there’s some curious novel label requirements that are going to be required in Texas. They’re going to require all the labels to have the URL of the business, the email address of the business, and I believe a phone number of the business on the label, which is regulation that we’ve not seen before from any other state and [crosstalk 00:03:10]

Matt Baum:
Yeah. I mean, I guess I get a URL, that makes sense. I can see, like for marketing purposes, why you might put your URL on a label or something, but a phone number, that’s kind of odd.

Jim Higdon:
The phone number is odd considering the font size. It’s going to have to be the fit, is going to be like five point font or something. The other thing is that all that is made redundant by the QR code, which is also required in the Texas proposed regulation. That’s a good thing because all CBD products should have QR codes that link to lab reports. So, you can determine the potency and safety of all those CBD products, absolutely should have QR codes and the Texas regulation requires, mandates QR code and that’s good, but with the QR code, it makes redundant needing a URL or a phone number because you just like QR code it and there you are. So, the label requirements are a little funny and could require supplemental labeling at one form or another, not just for my company, but for many company looking to do business in Texas.

Matt Baum:
The catch is not that like, it’s a big deal that the phone number there, but the catch would be, well, now all these companies may have to completely redo their labels just so they can be sold in Texas.

Jim Higdon:
Correct.

Matt Baum:
Got you.

Lack of clear FDA regulations hurts industry

Jim Higdon:
This is just one example of the lack of FDA regulations is causing a vacuum where individual states are making their own regulations, and Utah has strict regulations, but Utah is a small market. Texas is now implementing a unique kind of strict regulation, which is fine, but Texas is a huge market. There’s going to be a lot of CBD companies who want to comply with those Texas regulations, but they’re different in every state. So, as this patchwork of regulations, we’re going to … could have contradictory labels where you have to have different labels for different states and they can’t go to each other states. So, it’s just an example of how desperately we need federal regulations to make these uniform, so states like Texas aren’t stepping out and making these decisions on their own without consulting other states in the process. This is unfortunate-

Matt Baum:
Leaving small business people-

Jim Higdon:
… frustrating, but not really Texas’ fault, necessarily. It’s the federal government’s fault.

Matt Baum:
But, it puts a small business person in a situation where they may have to decide, “Okay. Is it worth it for us to make new labels just so we can get into Texas or do we make new labels I can get into Texas and say, “All right, screw Utah, I guess we’re not going to sell stuff there because their label has to be completely different.”? It’s just a mess.

Jim Higdon:
Well, and I don’t mean [inaudible 00:05:58] Utah as contradictory to Texas, but just as an example like Utah like-

Matt Baum:
Hypotetically. Yeah.

Jim Higdon:
… If you’re selling in Utah, you have to submit all your labels to the state of Utah for approval. If you’re selling in Denver, in Colorado, you have to get approved by the Denver Department of Public Health. Every state has some very curious regulatory compliance to go through and it’s this crazy bureaucratic patchwork that companies like mine have to navigate. Texas is about to come online with this particularly strange set of requirements, but so the phone number on the label like it’s inconvenient, but whatever. It’s fine, we’ll deal with it. The problem is in the same set of regulations for out of state CBD companies, Texas is like fine. You can sell out of state CBD products under these three circumstances.
Circumstance number one is coming from a state with a hit program that’s been approved by the USDA under the 2018 arm bill as I understand that language to be. Now, the problem with that, it sounds very normal and rational is if Texas wants out of state products, then you get products from states with the USDA approved program. The problem is, is the rules that the USDA implemented in late last year are so strict that 14 states have chosen not to comply with those standards and go by 2014 farm bill standards. Those states include Kentucky, Colorado, and Oregon, where the top three producing cannabinoid states in America with the top brands located in those three states. It seems like the Texas regulations bar CBD products from Kentucky, Colorado, and Oregon, unless the second provision in the out-of-state CBD regulations apply, but it’s written in this confusing manner that I don’t know what it means, and I couldn’t get anyone on the phone today in the Texas state government to tell me. So, it’s-

Matt Baum:
So, let me see if I’ve got this. So basically, Texas is saying we will only be able to buy CBD products that are adhering to the 2018 farm bill and the three biggest states who are arguably doing it the best and have the most support for CBD and hemp are going by the 2014 farm bill, because that one was looser than the new regulations, therefore you can’t sell stuff from Kentucky, Colorado, and what was the other one? I’m sorry.

Jim Higdon:
Oregon.

Matt Baum:
And Oregon in Texas.

Jim Higdon:
Again, this is my reading of Texas proposed regulations. I’ve not had any help from anyone and it’s confusing and I’m not a Texan. So, I could very well be getting this wrong, but as I understand it, here’s the language. A registered selling consumable hemp products processed or manufactured outside this state must submit to the department, evidence that the products were manufactured in another state or foreign jurisdiction with one, a state or tribal jurisdiction plan approved by the US Department of Agriculture under US code, which I believe is this 2018 farm bill thing, to a plan established under that same code. That if that plan applies to the state or jurisdiction, this is the part that I don’t understand, if that plan applies to the state of jurisdiction. So, maybe this is the caveat that the 2014 farm bill applies, but if that’s the case, then why have the number one, if the number two is to get out of jail free card?

Matt Baum:
Right.

Jim Higdon:
Then the third option is foreign jurisdiction. So obviously, that’s not the case. So, [crosstalk 00:09:53]

Matt Baum:
I know nobody can see this because if you’re listening to the show, but I am making that twisty dog head we talked about as you read this. Yeah, this is a sticky wicket.

Jim Higdon:
Yeah. It seems like it’s saying that only USDA approved hemp states can sell in Texas. That excludes 14 states as I understand it, that includes Kentucky. So, if I want to sell to Texas, I can maybe do it online, but not in retail. I’m fulfilling online orders into Texas every day.

Matt Baum:
Right. It sounds like we need to get someone from Texas on the phone to clear this up, but I wouldn’t even … Where do you go?

Jim Higdon:
I mean, I don’t know who’s covering the hemp [inaudible 00:10:40] in Texas. Texas is a foreign land to me. So, I’m a little bit out of my depth. I just am focused on this as a business person, because we’re trying to get Cornbread hemp everywhere we can, and really interested in doing the work in Texas. We have … Cornbread is a brand that will resonate really well in Texas.

Matt Baum:
Definitely.

Jim Higdon:
We can’t do that if these proposed regulations read like that, like they seem to read.

Matt Baum:
If this continues, it might not just be Texas. It could be a lot of states.

Jim Higdon:
Right. Not just Kentucky. This isn’t just my self interest. This is … if they want to buy at Charlotte’s web retail out of Colorado, it would also apply it seems. It’s just strange and it’s also strange that … I mean, it makes me feel particularly vulnerable that I’m totally wrong because I’m the only person saying, “Hey, is this a problem?”

Matt Baum:
Well, if nothing else, we’ll find out if it is, I guess.

Jim Higdon:
If I’m wrong, then that’s going to be great. If I’m right, then that’s bad, but then maybe there’s still time to change it.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Jim Higdon:
Because these regulations are still in the post stage. We still have time to raise public awareness enough so that they realize that they’re making a bad regulation. So [crosstalk 00:11:53]

Matt Baum:
Well, and even scarier part is maybe you’re not wrong and they don’t understand and didn’t even realize what you’re saying. That’s the really scary part. If they go, “Wait a minute, we didn’t even think about that.”

Jim Higdon:
That feels like the rightest answer. I think that’s the situation because they wrote these rules and didn’t realize they were excluding people. They just wrote the rules. Trying to be boy scouts about it. By boy scouting it, they cut themselves short.

A developing story in Texas

Matt Baum:
As of June 4th, Thursday night, when I’m editing this, we still haven’t heard from Texas. We still don’t know what these proposed regulations mean or who to even talk to about them. Therein lies the insanity of the hemp business right now. All people like Jim are asking is tell us the rules and make those rules apply to every state so we can adhere to them. I can’t think of another business in the world that is asking for this much regulation. Here is hemp saying tell us what to do and we’ll do it, but when it comes down to individual states making rules that only apply to those states, you end up in a quagmire, just like this where three of the most important states working in the hemp business right now could be excluded from retail in Texas, one of the largest markets in the United States, and that is insane.
Now, I’m not trying to demonize Texas. I’m not saying there’s anything fundamentally wrong with Texas. In fact, in our next story, we’re going to hear a really nice story about Texas, but this is a perfect example of where the federal government needs to step in and make these guidelines so they can apply to every state. Jim and I went on to talk about how Mitch McConnell, the Senator from Kentucky, who’s been an important Kentucky hemp advocate is noticeably silent and absent of late. Yes, there’s a lot of stuff going on right now between COVID and protests against racial injustice, both of which are important and need our attention, but at the same time, when you have a discussion of regulation like this, that ends on the 8th of June, four days from now, and we can’t get an answer, that is scary and that could set a precedent.
Jim isn’t alone here. He gave me the contact information for Jana Groda, who is the vice president of the Kentucky Hemp Industry Association, who has also reached out and can’t get any information out of Texas yet. My initial plan was to reach out and find out for myself, but I can’t get that information either. So, we’re going to continue to follow this one and I’ll let you know, and here’s hoping the Jim is wrong and this is just some strangely worded regulations.
No, it’s not all weird, confusing, bad news coming out of Texas. There’s some good stories too. My next guest, his name is Michael Tullis and he is the proprietor and owner of Early Fruit Hemp in Lubbock, Texas. You might know Lubbock as the birthplace of Buddy Holly. It’s a smallish Texas town in northeast Texas with a population about 250,000 people. I was surprised to hear how well a small hemp business could do in a town like this. Here’s my conversation with Michael Tullis of Early Hemp.
Tell me your story. How do you end up in the hemp world as a small retailer in Lubbock, Texas of all places.

Selling hemp in Lubbock, Texas

Michael Tullis:
Completely by accident. So, really I was interested in hemp and I started seeing on the shelves here in Lubbock and I was like, “Wow, that’s really cool. Let me buy one of these pre-rolls to test it out and see how it goes.” I liked the idea of it really, but I didn’t like that product at all.

Matt Baum:
Really?

Michael Tullis:
Yeah. It didn’t smoke good. It didn’t taste good. Nothing.

Matt Baum:
How long ago was this? When was this?

Michael Tullis:
So man, it started showing up around here around 2018. Maybe the end of it is probably when I first noticed it.

Matt Baum:
So just a couple of years ago?

Michael Tullis:
So, [crosstalk 00:16:04] here in Lubbock a couple of years. Yeah. I honestly never even heard of smoking hemp flower. I knew CBD oil was getting pretty popular. So, I was just taking it back and decided to give it a shot.

Matt Baum:
So, that was … you tried it and you were like, “I’m going to do this. I’m going for it.”

Michael Tullis:
I was like, “Well, I’m now going to do this if this is what it’s going to be like.” But, I do like cannabis a lot and I have for a long time. So, I figured I’d try some more out and did some research and I found some really cool farms that are doing some really good stuff. Mostly up in Oregon, but across the country. By the time, I tried a bunch of different products of theirs, I decided I might as well go at it myself, see if they’ll open up any deals with me. So, I’ve got a couple of farms that are working with me, I guess, wholesale. Producing everything there from seed to packaging, which is really cool. It’s really small naturally craft type product.

Matt Baum:
So, not that I expect you to be like a full on hemp scientist here, but you said when you first tried smokable flower hemp, you didn’t like it. Do you know … What went into the process of deciding “I know I don’t want it to be like that.” What is the process of improving it, I guess? What process you went through to-

Michael Tullis:
I mean, I smoked prerolls before not hemp marijuana prerolls. I mean, I kind of know what they’re supposed to smoke like, know what the insides of them look like. This one didn’t didn’t work at all after several attempts. So, I opened it up and it was like a powder. It wasn’t even … and there was little metal pieces in there. It was like really sketchy. I’m like, “It just looks like they just scraped together something out of a grinder at the end of a long day.” I guess I didn’t really think that I could do it better, but that there was definitely someone out there who was doing it better or it wouldn’t be a thing. [crosstalk 00:18:03]

Matt Baum:
Sure. Was that you guys your first product, the flower, or did you start with tinctures and whatnot?

Michael Tullis:
The flower was where we started. We realized pretty quickly that people wanted the tinctures more than anything or the salves. A lot of people want the gummies too, which is pretty crazy. I’ve never even tried the gummy myself.

Matt Baum:
I’ve tried a few and there’s a few I’ve liked, but it’s definitely not my favorite delivery system.

Michael Tullis:
Really?

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Michael Tullis:
I’ve heard they’re pretty good [crosstalk 00:18:34]

Matt Baum:
Yeah. Like anything, it depends who’s doing it right and what they’re putting in it. Right?

Michael Tullis:
Right. Right. So, these same farms that I was getting flower from, they were rolling out their own tinctures and their own salves around the same time. So, I just asked them for some of those. I hooked it up and some of them didn’t work as good as others. It took some time to weed through some farms, but we’ve found some really good tinctures as well.

Hemp at the farmers’ market

Matt Baum:
Nice. The majority of your business, is it online or is it local? Is it people from Lubbock coming to Early Hemp or Early Fruit? I keep saying Early Hemp. Sorry. Early Fruit.

Michael Tullis:
No, it’s okay. The majority of our business is local, which is really cool. So, we set up a booth at a farmer’s market once a week. That’s about all we do here, but the response has been amazing.

Matt Baum:
Really?

Michael Tullis:
Yeah. It blew me away. I didn’t think at all that Lubbock, Texas would respond well to a cannabis company.

Matt Baum:
Is Texas hemp friendly? I mean, I know they’ve got some fairly good laws there. In the beginning of this show, I’m actually discussing an issue with some verbiage in their latest rules that are coming out for CBD and hemp in Texas. From your experience as a small business person opening a small hemp business, has it been friendly? Have you felt pushback?

Michael Tullis:
Actually, I haven’t felt any pushback at all.

Matt Baum:
Wow. That’s great.

Michael Tullis:
I haven’t had anyone … I’ve had a couple of people who will come up and give me their opinion about it, but that’s not the law coming up and giving me their opinion bottom online.

Matt Baum:
Sure. As far as like administrative or governmental, it-

Michael Tullis:
Yeah. Nothing’s been a problem at all. Banks around here were an issue for a minute.

Matt Baum:
I can see that being tough definitely.

Michael Tullis:
Finding a small bank, I think was the trick. A lot of the big banks were still scared, but [crosstalk 00:20:28] local banks, they’ll help you out.

Matt Baum:
You’re dealing with a local bank?

Michael Tullis:
Yeah.

Matt Baum:
That’s amazing. That’s totally amazing. What about like credit card processing? You don’t have to tell me who you’re using, but I assume that was difficult to get that going.

Michael Tullis:
It was pretty hard. The company ended up with, there was supposedly a six week wait, ended up actually being 12 weeks. So, we got pushed back pretty far, yeah, at the beginning.

Matt Baum:
Yeah, that’s great. It just sucks right now because everyone is so terrified that at any minute it could be made illegal again. So, major credit card processors are still scared and waiting for the FDA to say, “Nope, it’s okay.” Or … It’s bizarre. What do you think your biggest challenge has been so far? So, for Early Fruit.

Challenges at every step

Michael Tullis:
Really, I think every step of the way has been the biggest challenge. But, once I got banking, it kind of went downhill from there. Everything started falling into place. So, I would say that was it and-

Matt Baum:
The whole discussion with the local banks, getting that set up, was it … this is literally just you face to face saying like, “Look, this is what I want to do. I believe there’s a market here.” You can tell by state law and the farm bill that it’s legal and they were receptive? They were just like, “Michael, we like the cut of your jib. Let’s do this.”

Michael Tullis:
Yeah. It took a few tries and it took a few banks, but I eventually got … I guess I have to get the right pitch down.

Matt Baum:
Fair enough.

Michael Tullis:
They were pretty welcoming. They weren’t too surprised. I guess maybe a few people have been trying around that time and they were willing.

Matt Baum:
That’s great. That is a much better story than I’ve heard from a lot of other people in different states.

Michael Tullis:
I know. I was terrified the whole time. I was like, “Man, this is going to be the hardest thing in the world.” But-

Matt Baum:
Oh yeah. Convincing people that you’re not a marijuana salesman, right?

Michael Tullis:
Yeah. Around here, it’s pretty hard. There’s not too much education on the difference between hemp and marijuana around here.

Matt Baum:
You guys are maintaining a blog on your site. That’s really good. I checked out, by the way, for education-

Michael Tullis:
Well, thank you. Thank you.

Matt Baum:
What about like locally? What are you doing for … Are you doing anything to try and educate the local populace?

Michael Tullis:
Just kind of while I’m there I’m providing as much education as I can answering questions, things like that, but no, I’m not really an outreach person. I even have trouble even typing up these little blogs that I post.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Michael Tullis:
It’s just some severe stage fright that eventually maybe I’ll get over. But, for now I think I’m doing pretty good getting some education out at the farmer’s market that I go to.

Matt Baum:
Cool. What do you see-

Michael Tullis:
Now, if they want more, they know where to find me.

Matt Baum:
Yeah, right on. What do you see the future for Early Hemp? What are you hoping for? Are you going to try and get into your own farming or you just want to be an out like a retail outlet?

Planting hemp in Texas

Michael Tullis:
Yeah. So, it started as a retail outlet, just trying to get something quality here in Lubbock. Since then, it’s worked and I’ve met a lot of great people. I’ve built some relationships in the hemp industry, which is really crazy. So, I’m actually looking to … not looking to. We just planted 16,000 plants.

Matt Baum:
Oh man!

Michael Tullis:
Yeah.

Matt Baum:
That’s huge.

Michael Tullis:
Where we grow in our own this season.

Matt Baum:
Wow.

Michael Tullis:
We’re a little bit late into it, but I think it’ll still work out fine. Texas stays hot.

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Michael Tullis:
It doesn’t cool off for most of the [crosstalk 00:24:05]

Matt Baum:
Not too much. No. Barring catastrophic climate change, which is a reality.

Michael Tullis:
My gosh, these days, anything can happen.

Matt Baum:
Tell me about it. So, do you have processing set up? 16,000 plants, that’s not exactly a small experiment you’re jumping into, is it?

Michael Tullis:
No. I tried to keep it as small as possible, but I’ve got some friends that talked me into crazy things.

Matt Baum:
We all do, I suppose.

Michael Tullis:
Right.

Matt Baum:
How are you guys going to go about processing that?

Michael Tullis:
I’m not quite sure. I know we’ve got a place to dry it, which is the scariest part. If you think about that many plants, that’s a big facility.

Matt Baum:
Yeah. That’s like an airport hangar, right?

Michael Tullis:
Yeah. Gosh, I hope we don’t need that much, but yeah, it’s really going to be a lot. So, we’ve got that figured out. As far as processing, we’ve got a few different options. Unfortunately, not many here in Texas.

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Michael Tullis:
Yet. Hopefully, within the next couple of years, they’ll start filling in. Well, we’d like to just do something simple with it. If we need to take it and extract it with ethanol ourselves, hopefully not, we’d rather have a CO2 extraction, something a little more pure.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Michael Tullis:
But, if we have to, and then get into our own products. If even the grow itself works, we’ll be able to get our own tinctures and our own salves made and hopefully our own smokable flower. We’re growing outdoors though, so it’s not really aiming for that this year.

Matt Baum:
Are there rules against that right now in Texas?

Michael Tullis:
Yeah. Yeah. There’s rules against a lot of stuff. Manufacturing and producing and even retail smokable, hemp I think right now is all really questionable.

Matt Baum:
So, it has to come from like greenhouses more or less.

Michael Tullis:
Yeah or out of state.

Matt Baum:
Yeah. So, do you truly are in the experimental phase right now? You’re like, “Let’s see if this stuff will even grow, basically.”

Michael Tullis:
Yeah. Yeah. So, really this whole thing started off as an experiment. A year and a half ago, I didn’t think I was going to be even successful doing retail much less have an opportunity to really dive into the hemp industry, really dive into growing and learning everything that I’ve learned. So, I guess at this point, I’m happy if everything just shuts down and it doesn’t work. From here on out, I learned a lot and I had a great time.

Matt Baum:
Fair enough. I like that attitude.

Michael Tullis:
I’ve surrounded myself with a lot of really good people.

Matt Baum:
It’s fantastic.

Michael Tullis:
Right. Thank you.

Matt Baum:
You’re like, “Oh, I learned a lot and I can take that away.” Good for you, man.

Michael Tullis:
Thank you. Thank you.

Matt Baum:
I’d be terrified person.

Michael Tullis:
I have a lot of really smart people around me too. I’ve got some brilliant people, so I’m not … maybe not as scared as I should be.

Matt Baum:
Fair enough. How many people you’re working with on this project?

Michael Tullis:
There’s four of us that are working on a project and then [inaudible 00:27:13] got a couple extra people helping out.

Matt Baum:
That is awesome. So, you said hopefully you would like to have it processed somewhere and then you want to turn it into your own tinctures, your own oils and topicals and whatnot.

Michael Tullis:
That’s the plan. That’s my plan for it anyways. We’ll see what everyone else wants to do.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Michael Tullis:
But, we’re all moving in that direction. It’d be nice to be able to brand it and get our own products out there. So, we’re doing this … My store this kind of small batch from farm to table type product and I’d like to be able to do that for myself, integrate my own … in that direction as well, you know?

Matt Baum:
Then it’s world domination after that. Right?

Michael Tullis:
Yeah. If I can take care of my house first, but you should let me take over the world, we’ll have a good time.

Matt Baum:
Yeah, that’s important. Definitely. I’ve talked to people in LA and Minneapolis and Seattle, but not a lot of small town hemp retailers out there right now. So, it’s cool that something like this can even work in Lubbock.

Michael Tullis:
Yeah. I thought so too. Hopefully, it stays working.

Matt Baum:
Yeah, man. I hope the best for you. I appreciate the flower that you sent me. It was fantastic, by the way. I really enjoyed it.

Michael Tullis:
Really? Yeah, I’m glad you liked it.

Matt Baum:
Definitely.

Michael Tullis:
Glad you liked it.

Matt Baum:
I’ll have links to Michael’s Early Hemp site in the notes of this episode. I was really fortunate and glad that I could get two stories from Texas, one that’s kind of weird and hopefully turns out to be good and one that just is good. A small business run by a local proprietor who’s trying to spread the word through education and quality products. I think it really illustrates how somebody who cares about hemp and CBD and does their homework and works with the right people and seeks to educate their local populace can succeed no matter where they are. I hope if you’re listening, you’ll throw a click Michael’s way and at least check out his site.

Black Lives Matter: Final thoughts from Matt

That is it for another episode of the Ministry of Hemp podcast. Thank you for listening. Thank you for supporting. If you haven’t had a chance yet, please head over to Patreon\ministryofhemp and become a ministry of hemp insider. It will get you early access to our articles, extra content, podcast extras and more importantly, it helps us spread the good word of hemp.
If you dig the show and you believe in what we’re doing, please help out. If you can’t, that’s fine too. You can write a review of this show or leave it a star rating on your podcast app. It really does help to get this information to other people. If you need more Ministry of Hemp, you can follow us on Twitter, on Facebook, we’re everywhere on social media at ministryofhemp\ministryofhemp, and we’re always publishing amazing stories over at ministryofhemp.com. Like a story about hemp masks that are offering sustainable personal safety during the COVID-19 crisis.
Now, I know we’re trying to return to work and return to life and whatnot, but you still need to wear a mask. If you want to do so and make a statement and do it sustainably, why not wear a mask made of hemp fabric. There’s also a great post about how to maintain focus while working at home without guzzling gallons of coffee, which is something I am very guilty of.
At the Ministry of Hemp, we believe that an accessible world is a better world for everyone. So, we will have a full written transcript of this show in the show notes for this episode. Before I end the show with my usual sign off, I want to say that the Ministry of Hemp and myself stand with Black Lives Matter and stand with the protestors and support everyone that is out there right now fighting the good fight, but please, please take care of yourself. COVID-19 is still very much a reality. So, please wear a mask, wash your hands, take care of yourself, take care of others and make good decisions, will you? This is Matt Baum with the Ministry of Hemp podcast signing off.

The post Texas Hemp Stories: Will New Regulations Endanger Texas Hemp? appeared first on Ministry of Hemp.

This two-day event was the second UK Hemp & CBD Expo this year, following a successful outing in March, and saw proceedings move up to a larger space to incorporate all the stalls, speakers and visitors keen to learn more about hemp and CBD in the UK.

Compared to other cannabis-related events, such as Cannabis Europa, which was held in London in June, the Hemp & CBD Expo is a much more consumer-friendly occasion, looking at the real-life benefits of hemp and CBD. Cannabis Europa, and other similar expos have a much more corporate feel, with the focus solely on how to make money out of this natural plant — which many in the UK CBD community feel puts profit over people.

Thankfully, the Hemp & CBD Expo took a much more holistic view, and while there was a dedicated business speaker’s stage, it certainly wasn’t the sole focus of the event.

UK Hemp & CBD Expo opens to a buzz of excitement

Spanning Saturday and Sunday, the expo was held in Hall 17, at the far, far end of the Birmingham NEC, which proved difficult to reach for some people I spoke to, particularly those in wheelchairs and people using CBD to help with arthritis. Location issues aside, on the Saturday there was a palpable buzz of excitement, with many hundreds, if not thousands, of people involved in, or curious about, the world of hemp and CBD packed into the hall.

There were many dozens of stalls and exhibitors laid out, covering practically every aspect of CBD and hemp. One of the first booths was the futuristically-named Advanced Dynamics, with an equally futuristic array of complex machinery – a swirl of tubes, lights and metal poles – promising to cater for all your filling, capping and labelling needs.

A range of exhibitors both big & small

The companies with massive investment were notable by their huge exhibitor spaces and tendency toward all-white decor. GenCanna, an American company, were certainly one of the most visible, and with their staff decked out in sharp fitted suits, added a professional air, if possibly a little more corporate than the rest.

Green Stem CBD also made a strong showing, with an impressive stall and remarkably knowledgeable and friendly staff. There was a confidence about their products, due in no small part to their winning five out of the seven awards they were nominated for at the first Hemp & CBD Expo back in March. With the recent announcement that UK celebrity Jenny Powell has signed up as their brand ambassador, it’s clear that Green Stem have the finances and profile to become a key player in the future of CBD in the UK.

Speakers talk everything from medicine to business at UK Hemp & CBD Expo

Stalls aside, the most interesting element of the expo were the two stages – the main stage, with enough seating for a hundred or so people, and the smaller — but no less interesting — business pro stage.

One of the most interesting talks came early on the Saturday, thanks to Michael Fisher from the Teesside Cannabis Club. Michael came as a breath of fresh air. He’s a genuinely passionate cannabis activist from Middlesborough in the Northeast of England. His cannabis club formed in 2014 and provides a safe space for people to consume cannabis without having to worry about getting arrested. He delivered an emotional speech, covering the legalities and difficulties of his cannabis club, plus the varied benefits it has brought to the people of Middlesborough.

One of the most high-profile names in hemp, CBD and medical cannabis in the UK is published author Callie Blackwell, who spoke movingly about her eldest son being diagnosed with cancer, and how holistic methods have helped them over recent months and years.

Credible speakers like Dr. Dani Gordon expel CBD’s ‘snake oil’ reputation

There were some interesting points made by Christian and Frederik Hendriksen from Mile High Labs, looking at the technicalities of running a CBD business, such as dealing with the ever-present novel foods issue, as well as employing GPS and sealed containers when transporting CBD isolate. One of the most well-informed speakers on the UK CBD and hemp circuit is Peter Reynolds, who delivered a wide-ranging talk on the Sunday, taking a grounded look at everything from legalisation to the potential impact of Brexit on the future of medical cannabis in the UK.

The talks and panels on the business stage were just as fascinating, if a little more complex. Dr. Dani Gordon gave a myth-busting doctor’s guide to CBD, looking at how it can affect the female reproductive system, anxiety and much more. It’s clear that the CBD industry in the UK needs to focus more closely on credible speakers like Dr. Gordon if it’s going to shake off the ‘snake oil’ reputation that has blown up around it in recent months.

The most expensive seeds on the planet?

Nick Tulloch from Zoetic Premium CBD was another engaging speaker on the business pro stage on the Sunday, talking about the behind-the-scenes aspects of the worldwide CBD business. He made the remarkable point that his company pays a dollar per seed for hemp plants. This might sound extraordinarily expensive but these seeds have undergone testing to ensure they’re entirely female, completely sidestepping the useless male plants and producing only useful yields of hemp.

The Hemp & CBD Expo is the UK’s first hemp trade show, and this second event built on the success of the first, showcasing a huge range of knowledgeable speakers and largely credible high-end exhibitors. Talking to various guests it’s clear that no one really knows where the UK CBD industry is headed, and until we have a clear vision of the future businesses are forced to move carefully, lest the entire industry is up-ended. Brexit is at the front of many peoples minds, with Peter Reynolds in particular opining that a break from the European Union will be of great benefit for CBD in the UK.

UK Hemp & CBD Expo focuses on advocates and enthusiasts rather than ‘Big Business’

There will undoubtedly be more events in the coming years, and each one will bring us closer to the final vision of where hemp, CBD and medical cannabis stands in the UK.

Aside from issues of legislation and legality, the range of speakers was admirable. The preponderance of CBD enthusiasts and advocates, such as Michael Fisher and Dr. Dani Gordon, was a welcome change from the big-business focus of other cannabis and CBD trade events over the past year. 

The post UK Hemp & CBD Expo 2019: A Buzz Of Excitement & An Uncertain Future appeared first on Ministry of Hemp.

This episode’s guests include:

Our new Regulation Wrangler (cool title right?) Jenn Price from Golden State Govt. Relations where she serves as a consultant in the cannabis industry. Jenn opens the show talking about the challenges of USDA and FDA regulations that could slow down the industry.

Josh Hendrix, Director of U.S. Hemp Production for CV Sciences, Inc and Plus CBD Oil, talks about hemp farming and the challenges of growing a crop that’s been illegal for 75 years.

And finally, the show closes with an introduction to the Indigenous Perspectives of Hemp panel at this past NoCo Hemp Expo in Denver Colorado. Olowan Martinez of the Oglala Sioux Tribe spoke about a major issue facing tribes growing hemp on reservation lands that I hadn’t even considered.

We want to hear from you too. Send us your questions and you might hear them answered on future shows! Send us your written questions to us on Twitter, Facebook, email matt@ministryofhemp.com, or call us and leave a message at 402-819-6417.

Don’t forget to subscribe to the show on iTunes or your favorite podcast app.

More about Hemp Farming

Read more about hemp farming in the U.S.:

• Full Traceability — From Seed to Shelf
• George Washington’s Hemp Farm
• How Hemp Saved A Piece Of Vermont Farming History
• The Many Uses Of Hemp On Smaller Farms
• What The 2018 Farm Bill Means For US Hemp & Agriculture

Episode Transcript

Matt: Welcome back to the Ministry of Hemp Podcast.

Matt: Last time on the show we were talking about eating hemp and how to introduce it into your diet, but that hemp has got to come from somewhere. So today on the show we are going to look at hemp farming and the challenges that American hemp farmers face.

Matt: Now, I’m sure you’ve heard that recently the 2018 Farm Bill passed, and that Farm Bill allowed farmers to start growing industrial hemp. The Farm Bill defines hemp as cannabis that contains less than .3 per cent THC. I’d love to tell you that was it and farmers everywhere are rejoicing, but there’s not quite hemp gold in those fields yet, son.

Matt: Now that the government is involved, that means Uncle Sam has some rules and regulations that he’s going to need farmers in all 50 states to follow if they want to get in on growing hemp. Towards the end of last month, the FDA and the USDA made some announcements that they were going to open the floor to listen to representatives and their plans for how their states would like to grow hemp, sort of like the meeting of the committee to form a committee if you will.

Matt: Of course there’s going to be lots of rules and regulations coming down, now I am not a lawyer, I only pretend to be one on my comic book show every once in a while. Not here, this is serious stuff. So I found the next best thing.

Jen Price D.C.: Hi, I’m doctor Jen Price, D.C., I am the director of state compliance at Golden State Government Relations and I work with people on regulatory compliance for cannabis, and as hemp has become the big hot topic, we are transitioning towards helping folks with hemp as well.

Matt: Jen is great, she is a super passionate cannabis activist, she is a doctor of chiropractic, and she knows her way around these legal rules and regulations pretty good, so I have made her the official Ministry of Hemp legal consultant. Bad news Jen, I’m afraid it doesn’t pay well.

Jen Price D.C.: I just want to say, before I go into any of this, I am not a lawyer. I work in regulation and compliance so we are following all of this, I do work with all of this, but nothing I’m saying here is legal advice.

Matt: Okay, so unlike lawyers you’re not full of B.S. is what you’re saying?

Jen Price D.C.: Right, I’m just going to give it to you straight.

Matt: Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay.

Jen Price D.C.: There’s a couple things that have been going on since the 2018 farm bill passed so everybody’s been super excited that hemp has basically been legalized, but what a lot of people don’t realize is there’s still some more steps to go before this is actually going to be a real thing that’s operationally happening.

Matt: This is legalization on a federal level only, right?

Jen Price D.C.: Correct, and it is going to apply to all the states but it’s just a little more complex. You can pass a law but just because you passed a law doesn’t mean that you have the regulatory framework to put that law into place, so where we are right now is at that time where we need to put the regulatory framework into place. And what’s just happened this week is we’ve had some announcements from both the USDA and the FDA about their plans and timeframes that they’re looking at to actually implement these things that had just recently become legal because of the 2018 farm bill.

Matt: Legal in quotations, right? Because-

Jen Price D.C.: Legal in quotations.

Matt: – On a state level, like a red state like Nebraska can decide no we’re not legalizing it here yet.

Jen Price D.C.: There are still states’ rights and really what’s going on right now is, until the United States Department of Agriculture comes up with their regulatory framework, nobody can start to really utilize the benefits of the 2018 farm bill.

Matt: Okay.

Jen Price D.C.: They’re going to have to put into place what the process is going to have to be for regulation, and then there’s going to be two scenarios: either a state can adopt the USDA’s regulatory framework, or if a state wants to have their own regulatory framework, they need to apply to the USDA to have it approved before they can implement it. But they’ll accept applications from states or plans from states at this point, but they aren’t going to start reviewing them until after they’ve decided what they want to do at the federal level.

Matt: Okay.

Jen Price D.C.: So, the federal regulatory framework comes into place, then they’ll start looking at the individual states and what individual states want to do. And so there’s kind of two parts that I want to discuss because we’ve got what’s going on with growing hemp and the USDA, and then we’ve got what’s going on with hemp derived CBD products and the FDA.

Matt: Okay, so let’s get into the first one, the growing hemp and the USDA.

Jen Price D.C.: Yes, the 2014 Farm Bill allowed for states to choose to start pilot programs for growing hemp for the purposes of research, the three that have the strongest programs are Kentucky, Colorado and Oregon.

Matt: Let me ask you real quick, when you say growing for research what does that mean?

Jen Price D.C.: Well, it means that that’s all that the feds allowed for, so part of these pilot programs is they need to be collecting some kind of data for quote “research purposes” and some of the states have taken that to mean market research. And so that’s why we’re seeing hemp derived CBD products that are gray area legal coming out of Colorado, out of Oregon, out of Kentucky, stuff is coming in from outside of the US as well, and it’s really been this area that has technically always been illegal. If you look at the Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act which is what the FDA goes by, none of this has ever actually been legal as far as they’re concerned for inter-state commerce, but they just really don’t have a lot of resources to enforce.

Jen Price D.C.: But with the Farm Bill coming out in 2018, which has taken hemp and all of its derivatives off of the CSA’s list of drugs, so it basically took it off the scheduling, so there’s now a different definition for hemp [crosstalk 00:06:11] than for marijuana-

Matt: Schedule 1 was basically illegal drugs, they said like marijuana, and heroin, and crack cocaine, obviously, are all schedule 1.

Jen Price D.C.: Right, so hemp used to just get lumped in ’cause it’s cannabis. It’s cannabis and what they’ve done is they’ve now made a distinction so hemp, which means that it has less than .3 per cent THC for the whole plant, is now considered different than all other cannabis which they call marijuana.

Matt: And since this is USDA related, we’re talking about hemp that will be grown for food, for tinctures, for stuff like that-

Jen Price D.C.: Exactly-

Matt: – Not necessarily hemp that’s used for paper or fabric.

Jen Price D.C.: Well, it is going to include the stuff used for paper and fabrics, it’s going to be all industrial hemp.

Matt: Oh is it? Okay, gotcha. So the floodgates aren’t open yet, but the floodgates are opening, if you will.

Jen Price D.C.: They are opening, and so it’s basically …

Matt: Jen is wonderful, and my conversation with her went on much longer than this. And yeah, there’s going to be a big scary regulation show coming, and I’m still trying to figure out a way to make it interesting, so pray for me.

Matt: So, now that we’ve talked about regulation and how scary that’s going to be, let’s get down in the dirt and let’s talk about farming. That’s where this guy comes in.

Josh Hendricks: So, I’m Josh Hendricks I’m the director of domestic hemp production for CV Sciences, makers of Plus CBD Oil. I also sit on the board of directors and serve as president of the US Hemp Roundtable, as well as the board of directors for Friends of Hemp.

Matt: Okay, so you might know what you’re talking about is what you’re saying.

Josh Hendricks: Well, I wouldn’t go that far, but I’ll give it a good guess.

Matt: Okay. So Josh we’re talking about where hemp comes from, and when I say where it comes from I mean literally how we grow hemp. Just recently the FDA has said we can start to grow hemp and they’re putting together a plan so that farmers can do so, there are some states where they’re already growing it. Tell me about hemp, is it hard to grow? Is it easy to grow? Is it different than say soybeans or corn? I’m a Nebraska guy so that’s what I know.

Josh Hendricks: Well, I also forgot to mention that I did grow hemp for 3 years on my farm, I took 2018 off ’cause I think I was on the road somewhere North of 200 days last year. So it would have been a little hard to farm, and quite frankly I’m not a farmer. I moved home to get involved in the hemp industry, I quit my job the day after the Farm Bill passed in 2014 and decided to move home and utilize my family’s farm, which is small, but also really just to get involved in the hemp industry. I started the Kentucky Hemp Industries Association, I started my podcast The Hemp Happy Hour, started working with CV Sciences, et cetera.

Josh Hendricks: I can tell you from personal experience that it’s not easy to grow hemp.

Matt: Really?

Josh Hendricks: Of course. It’s no different than what soybeans was like in the ’60s and that’s a multi-billion dollar industry in the United States now as an agricultural [commodity 00:09:07], not even just including the food products and things that-

Matt: Sure, sure.

Josh Hendricks: – are made from soy. So, we had a 75 year gap in growing that here, so the variety, the cultivars that have been developed in terms of hemp are either brand new to the US and being bred here in the US, or from cannabis, or they’re certified hemp seeds from around the world that haven’t been grown here and that are being trialed in different states, and regions, and geographical type areas within states even. So trying to figure out what seeds work best, what varieties work best for both CBD seed grain and/or fiber production.

Matt: So basically the biggest challenge right now is what grows the best where.

Josh Hendricks: I would say there’s some other challenges for sure, obviously you don’t have any pesticides or fungicides, and that doesn’t mean the bad ones, I’m very anti chemicals and things like that. But there are organic ways to do that kind of stuff, and we’re still playing with a lot of those going on.

Josh Hendricks: I mean it’s kind of a blessing in disguise that we’ve been given this 75 year break, I know it stinks to think we missed out on this opportunity for so long, but now we have an opportunity really to not [inaudible 00:10:15] with GMOs with particular plants, we can do it the right way, we can learn how to farm this organically, which we’re forced to do right now because there are no approved pesticides, [inaudible 00:10:25], or sprays or anything of that nature for hemp, and hopefully that’ll stay that way for a while so we can figure out how to grow this organically.

Josh Hendricks: At CV Sciences we’re working with the Rodale Institute along with the likes of Patagonia and Dr. Bronner to try to help them further, and really advance as fast as we can the organic research on this new crop because this can also hopefully transition farmers back to the organic way of farming.

Matt: Sure. Okay, now you’re in Kentucky, is that right?

Josh Hendricks: I have an apartment in Kentucky and a farm there I don’t see it very often.

Matt: Oh okay. When you say I moved home you

Matt: … home to Kentucky, but you travel all the damn time.

Josh Hendricks: I established residency there, yes.

Matt: Got you. Okay. So growing hemp, in and of itself, is it easier or harder in the sense that like compared to another crop as far as pests and challenges with the weather and soil and stuff like that? Or is it the kind of thing where it’ll really grow anywhere if you do it right?

Josh Hendricks: Again, it’s very variety dependent. So, if you lived in Florida, you’re not going to have the same type of hemp growing very well in Florida that you would in say, Minnesota, if you’re using soil. Now if you’re greenhouse, or indoor controlling it, which I just think is not the way things are going to be considering hemp is going to be a commodity no matter how good it is, or how high it is in CBD, it’s still going to be a commodity. And the race is to efficiency. But I think different varieties for different climates, different soil types, et cetera. It’s no different than any other. You don’t grow the same type of soy in Indiana as you do in Kentucky.

Matt: Sure.

Josh Hendricks: Actually you do, they’re actually close.

Matt: Okay.

Josh Hendricks: But in certain parts of Kentucky, you grow different kinds of corn than you would literally in the same state. We have three very different farming regions between western, central, and eastern Kentucky. And so, there’s going to be different varieties for different areas because you’re trying to efficiently be able to produce that crop and get the most yield, obviously. I mean that seems like common sense.

Matt: Right. I mean that’s anything you’re growing, right?

Josh Hendricks: Right. Right. And given this new crop, we’re really still experimenting. You can look at the states every year and see how many acres are approved. And then you can see how many acres are planted. And then you can see how many acres are harvested. And a lot of that loss along the way is weed suppression, right?

Matt: Sure.

Josh Hendricks: The canopy doesn’t come up, they’re still trying to figure out what time of year to plan some of these crops. Maybe it’s later than they think. Maybe it’s easier than they think. Soil preparation is key, obviously, to try and get as many weeds out of there as possible, but also have good nutrients in the ground. So yeah, it’s very dependent on all those factors. And I think we’re still very much in the early stages. But as you’re seeing, there isn’t a lot of success being had too, and it doesn’t necessarily mean the people failing are doing a bad job. Some of it’s weather related.

Matt: Right.

Josh Hendricks: Some of it’s information they’ve gotten from other folks, honestly. So, yeah I think it’s new and it’s exciting, but it’s very new.

Matt: So the hardest part is really due to the fact that we had a 75 year break while this was illegal. And people just kind of forgot how to grow it.

Josh Hendricks: Of course. I mean, we started sourcing in the Netherlands in 2012 before you could even get hemp here in the US. And trust me, they weren’t having any problem growing it. They’ve been growing it. Those seeds are bred for that climate, that weather.

Matt: Sure.

Josh Hendricks: That soil. All we did was ask them to harvest in a different way. So, that’s the difference in what’s going on right now. Obviously CBD’s driving the train, but I think what you’re going to see is hemp seed oil becomes big in cosmetics and food and body care. And as the fiber, hopefully, takes over the composite materials industry and, you see it in dashboards and overhead compartments in airplanes. That’s when the rubber starts to meet the road and hemp really does become a commodity. Even the floral material that’s being used for CBD production, or hemp extracts, you’re going to start the see the price of that go way down. So it will be a race to simple efficiency and who can farm it the best and create the best quality, but also at the lowest cost.

Matt: Sure. Now, the hemp that you are growing, do you grow different hemp for something like hemp seed oil, than you would grow for CBD oil? Or you would grow for say, fabric or composite plastics? Is it all different hemp?

Josh Hendricks: Industry specific hemp, such as fiber hemp, is what we actually use for our CBD material. It’s not high in CBD, but there’s enough CBD in there and there’s enough nutrients and [inaudible 00:14:49] for us to produce, what is currently the top retail brand CBD in the world. I think there’s a misconception of, oh the more CBD, the more money because everybody is chasing after Ice woods which is a whole nother ball game that we’re not in. We don’t do Ice woods because we actually believe that that’s going to go the way of the pharmaceutical industry. That’s what GW Pharmaceutical uses, although their CBD is from marijuana. CBD ice wood from hemp is still a little bit more, gray I would say.

Matt: Okay.

Josh Hendricks: So hemp extract is really what we focus on. But that being said, people are producing hemp extracts with all female type grows growing, which you would refer to as maybe tomato, or tobacco style, or even all indoors in their climate, really control environments. Which cost a lot of money, right?

Matt: Right.

Josh Hendricks: And so, the price of a pound of hemp is X, tomorrow or next year it’s going to be Y. And if their cost of doing business is Z, and Z is higher than Y, than that’s not really going to last forever. And so as more and more hemp gets produced, the price of hemp, the price of CBD for that matter, comes down. So it really is a race to efficiency and that’s where I believe direct seed agricultural farming using machines and mechanization, automatization, those kind of things are really going to further this industry over the next three to five years.

Matt: Now what about like nutrients in the soil? One of the things that farmers deal with in western Nebraska is they’ve been growing soy beans and corn for so long that they’ve literally stripped all the nutrients out of the soil. Does hemp behave differently? Is it the kind of crop that could possibly be used to reinvigorate nitrogen levels and stuff like that? Or is it a lot more … is it very nutrient heavy?

Josh Hendricks: Yeah. So it’s a phenomenal rotation crop given that it actually leaves the soil better than it found it. It’s a reginative crop. So, it’s going to sequester CO2 in the soil, and if you add it to that rotation now, it actually makes corn and soy a little bit more sustainable because you’re not having to use all that. You know when I come in with corn or soy behind hemp, I’m going to use less chemicals, less nutrients, things like that, and it’s going to cost me less money which means I’m going to make more money hopefully off the corn.

Matt: Sure.

Josh Hendricks: But also, going to hopefully start steering that into more sustainable direction as well.

Matt: Now, we don’t have like you said, a commodity for stuff like this yet, but people are growing it and selling it. What is it comparable to something like cotton, or something like soy beans, or something like corn?

Josh Hendricks: Depends on the market, or what you’re growing it for. Obviously if you’re growing it for fiber, you’re looking at more along the lines of a kenaf pricing. A little bit better than hay obviously because it is a little bit more labor … or not labor intensive, but a little bit more work and it costs a little more to do it.

Josh Hendricks: When you talk about grain or the seed, you’re definitely going to get more than soy or corn. It’s not going to be a ton more, but it’s really not any more cost prohibitive to do it.

Josh Hendricks: And then when you talk about CBD, that number’s astronomical right now.

Matt: Right.

Josh Hendricks: Everybody’s paying added percent per pound. So let’s say you have a 5% CBD, if you get $3 a pound, you’re getting $15 a pound, and you’re getting in the neighborhood of five figures an acre. And hopefully you have less than five figures to make [inaudible 00:17:59].

Matt: Sure.

Josh Hendricks: So, and that’s unheard of in agriculture. And that’s not going to last forever. Just like it’s not going to last that way forever with marijuana.

Matt: Right.

Josh Hendricks: Break people’s … most people’s bubble there. But they were giving away weed in Oregon.

Matt: So we’re going through like a boom right now. And when this all comes together, and finally they … the FDA does approve everything and we have farms everywhere, do you see a bust coming?

Josh Hendricks: I do. I mean I think … like I said, this is a race to efficiency. I’ve been going around the country, I’ve been preaching that for six months to a year. And I’ve told everybody that there’s a lot of people out there recreating the wheel, because they believe in their genetic. And that’s fine, I totally appreciate that, I support it. I mean we need people working on new genetics everyday.

Matt: Right.

Josh Hendricks: But there’s a risk involved in that. And that’s, how much money are you willing to spend to develop a genetic and to develop a growing philosophy, if you will, or production philosophy, cultivation philosophy that is very costly? Of course there’s going to be niche markets and people are going to pay high dollar for certain things. But I do think that what you’ll see, eventually, is a commodity style pricing on hemp for both hemp flower material, hemp seed crushed up, hemp seed oil, and then obviously, hemp fiber and hemp herd. You have five different markets there that the prices are going to fluctuate based on supply. And eventually, the supply meets the demand.

Matt: Of course.

Josh Hendricks: Price starts coming down. So, that’s the game with any agricultural crop or soon to be commodity. I think we’re just on the cusp of it.

Matt: Sure. So let me ask you, you said you have a small farm. How big is your farm?

Josh Hendricks: My grandfather’s farm is about 100 acres. And then we have a couple other small farms and one big farm that’s really more just woods.

Matt: Okay. So how much of that are you using to grow hemp? Of that 100 acres?

Josh Hendricks: So we grew 11 acres each year, the three years that we did grow. Then my neighbors are growing somewhere in the neighborhood of a little over 100 acres this coming year.

Matt: Okay. So, what do you think you can get out of 100 acres? Like what does that produce? Let’s say it’s all successful, no problems. Best case scenario. What are you producing in 100 acres?

Josh Hendricks: Well if we’re growing with direct seed, and we’re harvesting the tops and we’re harvesting the stock the way that they do it in Europe, you’re looking to get 2,500 to 3,000 pounds of not … it’s not going to be high CBD, you’re looking at 1% to 2% CBD. But once we CO2 extract that, we can get what we need at CV Sciences. And then bailing up the fiber, you’re going to get a little less than average. I don’t even know the number off the top of my head, because that’s not my business. But, they’re going to get another … so basically they’re going to get a check from us based on the dry weight produced off the field and the floral materials, their stems and seeds in there because it’s both male and female.

Matt: Right.

Josh Hendricks: And then they’re going to get a check from another company like say, a Sunstrand who’s in Mobile, Kentucky who’s a fiber processor for weight of each bail of the stock that they have.

Matt: So the real benefit is you’re not just growing a strawberry. You’re not just growing an ear of corn. You’re growing a plant that is used a lot of different ways. And because it’s used a lot of different ways, you can sell it to a lot of different people.

Josh Hendricks: Well, and the guys doing this are big time farmers that they understand that it’s a numbers game, right? They need to rotate their crops. It’s going to benefit them on the corn and their soy. Especially these organic farmers that we’re looking at. I mean, they’re looking at it as [crosstalk 00:21:25].

Matt: Right. [crosstalk 00:21:29]

Josh Hendricks: [crosstalk 00:21:31] commercial farmers are doing and doing organic. Kind of insane.

Matt: Again, Josh and I had a much longer conversation here and he’ll definitely be back on the show. He brings up some really good points about how young this industry is, the hemp industry. And sure, there’s a lot of challenges to be face right now. But there’s also a lot of chances to do it the right way. And that’s pretty unique for agriculture in this country.

Matt: For the final segment of this show, I wanted to play

Matt: A little bit of a talk that I listened to at the NoCo Hemp Expo in Denver just the other weekend. This was the introduction to the Indigenous Peoples Panel that I sat in and listened to and they bought up some challenges that I didn’t even think about. The panel was introduced by a woman named [Oloah 00:22:20] from the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation who’s been growing Hemp for a while and doing pretty well with it. Unlike a lot of other farmers the Pine Ridge Reservation has to be very careful with what they do and how they treat their crops I let Oloah speak about some more.

Jen Price D.C.: Indigenous language [00:22:38]. Good morning or good day volunteers, my name is Oloah and I have traveled here from the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, just like many of you, to make connections, network, try to find, I guess, a hemp family is what we’re doing. When I was asked to give opening statements I kept thinking to myself what do I want the Hemp Industry to know about the mentality in the not so indigenous nations, the true landlords of this continent and I want to start out with … by saying, with any industry we know that there’s good and bad in everything.

Jen Price D.C.: So, being a landowner also, land I inherited from my grandparents I see this is a very dangerous time for Indian country again, because we see predators coming in to our homelands trying to obtain land through promises of money, through promises of status, so I want to say we need to pay attention to this fat-taker mentality, so I wanted to talk about a [locota 00:24:09] word that we have and that locota word is [wachetu 00:24:12]. And through our history that word has come to define a white man, but that isn’t the literal term for it, although it could probably explain color. But I guess I wanted to say this word is, in today’s world is more a mentality set or a mindset. Wachetu is taker of the best part of the meat, takes the best part for him or herself, takes the best part of it for self. So I guess I wanted to explain that word that in today’s world Wachetu isn’t just white. There’s red, there’s brown, there’s black and yellow fat-takers today, but see we learned this well.

Jen Price D.C.: So, I guess I wanted to speak about that word because my fear is that this industry becomes fat-takers industry and we don’t want that to happen. I heard [Winona 00:25:26], a hero of mine also, speak earlier and she talked about how this industry is led by white men and I think a big part of my nervousness today was, in my mind, I thought that’s who would be in the audience, is all these … this different side of the hemp industry and looking out at everybody I don’t see that. So, I’m taking it that they’ll review our videos, our statements later. I’m hoping because we don’t want, as indigenous people, we don’t want to be these historical relics to be mocked anymore. As I mentioned before being the true landlords, caretakers of this continent, and we forgot our part. I see our Nations as coming out of historical, generational, chemically induced, oppressive state of mind, but that’s over now. We’re taking our future into our own hands and taking it back from fat-taker.

Jen Price D.C.: So, I guess I wanted to come and express that in this relationship building in this industry, I think of it as how … I think of allowing people into my home, not just anybody get to come in. As Indigenous Nations we’ve seen, you give an inch, they take a mile. So if we only let em into our doorway will they flood our homes? Will they come in and just takeover and assume and assert themselves? We’ve had that happen to us before and I think, now that we’re out of this chemically induced oppressive state of mind, we’re not going to let that happen anymore. So, with this industry being a light for many Nations to come out of that ration line, I’m hoping that these relationships will go for generations. I want to leave everyone in this industry with a question or something to think about.

Jen Price D.C.: Are you here as a fat-taker? Are you willing to share knowledge? Because if you come in a good way we always accept and return in a good way as Nations, as Traditional People of these lands. And again, I do want to acknowledge the [Arapoho 00:28:21], like Winona mentioned earlier, cause traditionally this was their land before Denver ever existed, these town, these buildings, this was already a home to a Nation. So, I think that’s a part that this fat-taker mentality of the hemp industry refuses to see also is that coming out of denial that no, you don’t own land. You stole land. You’re illegally growing and living on stolen land. And so that brings guilt, you know, we’ve seen all this. So, again we’re here about being neighbors and to discuss healing aspects for self and earth, for a mother we all share. That’s Mother Earth and locota it’s [Euchimacar 00:29:17] for us, our grandmother. She was always here for us so it’s time to take responsibility back again, like Winona said, and give back.

Jen Price D.C.: And the locota we know in our history, we were to always feed the spirits and what land and things contaminate it, how are we going to do that? So again, we’re taking responsibility back into our own hands. And so those are just some insight I wanted to share, and again, leave you with something to think about is … Are you here in the hemp industry as a fat-taker?

Jen Price D.C.: We’ve had dealings with fat-taker and we don’t want to deal with fat-taker anymore. So we’re hoping to build relationships that eventually turn into something more solid. And again, also with the bad, just because we allow you into our homelands, don’t assume that you’re being invited into our spiritual spaces. That’s also boundaries as relationships and as relatives as we need to understand. So again, lets keep our common mother in mind in all our interactions with each other and it’s Mother Earth.

Jen Price D.C.: Thank you.

Matt: That whole Indigenous Peoples Panel that I sat through was really amazing and they talk a lot about how successful they’d been with growing hemp and how much respect they have for the plant. They spoke about farmers selling their genetics for seeds and whatnot and how nobody owns these plants and how they bought some of these genetically modified seeds and they returned to feral plants on their own land that grew better there.

Matt: It shows a real respect for the hemp plant itself that, I hope, stays in this industry and it filled me with a lot of hope for the industry. You’ll hear a lot more about my time at NoCo in the next show. I’m gonna do a whole diary on it, but I hope you learned something about growing hemp this week and I’d love to hear your reactions and your questions.

Matt: You can always hit me up via email at matt@ministryofhemp.com. Call us anytime, day or night, at 4028196417 with your questions or comments and I’d love to play them on the show. Shoot us a tweet @ministryofhemp on twitter, hit us up on Facebook at facebook\ministyrofhemp and please, ask us question, that’s what we’re here for. We’re trying to demystify this and learn together. As always, there will be a full written transcript in the show notes for this episode, and please if you get a chance and you enjoy this, leave us a rating on iTunes. It really does help other people to find the show. In the meantime, take care of yourself, take care of others and make good decisions will ya.

Matt: This is Matt and the Ministry of Hemp, signing off.

As always, you can find download the complete show transcript here:

• Ministry of Hemp Podcast Episode 3 Transcript PDF
  

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