Capsules are a great way to get a daily CBD supplement. They’re convenient, flavorless, and taking one won’t draw any unwanted attenton. Hemp Mellow capsules are a great option thanks to the uniquely bioavailable formula from their parent company. And Hemp Mellow gets made in a state of the art, sustainable facility. That means you get more from each capsule and can feel good about using them too.

Absorption rate, or bioavailability, has always been an issue when using cannabinoid products. So Hemp Mellow creators have developed what they call Nature’s Delivery System, which may increase absorption by three to five times the rate of average capsules, based on their estimates. And we can totally feel the difference!

Hemp Mellow paid us a fee and offered us free products in return for our honest opinion. If you purchase a product from one of these links, we’ll receive a percentage of sales. Read more about sponsored content on Ministry of Hemp.

Read on to see how Hemp Mellow made us feel, and learn more about what makes their capsules unique.

The entourage effect in action 

In addition to the bioavailability of Hemp Mellow capsules, what makes them so effective is the focus on the entourage effect. They offer a true full spectrum experience.

We looked at their third-party lab results, and ran our own test (see below) and were impressed to say the least. CBD, CBG, CBN, CBC, and delta-9-THC (among others) all show up in the lab results. We love seeing all those cannabinoids! One thing that stands out? Hemp Mellow contains the maximum amount of delta-9-THC allowed by law.

Of course the delta-9-THC is under the legal 0.3% limit, but it still helps explain the potent, relaxing effects of Hemp Mellow CBD. This is a great option if you want to feel very relaxed, or if THC edibles leave you feeling too strung out or anxious.

Researchers call it the “entourage effect” when multiple cannabinoids work in harmony. This array of cannabinoids enhances the benefits of CBD, and they work together to create the pleasant, mellow feeling we got from the capsules.

Hemp Mellow & Nature’s Delivery System

We recommend Hemp Mellow CBD capsules for busy working people, those who don’t like the flavor of CBD oil or want to avoid sugary gummies. They’re a great choice for people who take CBD every day, or anyone that needs some intense relaxation.

Hemp Mellow told us their patent-pending technology, Nature’s Delivery System, takes advantage of a pathway created by evolution to help people absorb nutrients from their mothers. That’s why this dry capsule contains milk as part of the formula.

We tried Hemp Mellow at varying times of the day, for a pick me up in the morning, general anxiety, and to relax before bed. It went down easy with a glass of water. And within the hour we felt a sense of profound, even joyful calm. We were also able to focus on tasks easier. And we noticed the effects for several hours. After taking a capsule at bedtime, we felt well-rested from deep, quality sleep the next day.

This isn’t the best capsule for vegans as it contains milk (one of the only drawbacks). Overall, the entourage effect combined with Hemp Mellow’s innovative Nature’s Delivery System makes this capsule a new favorite.

Hemp Mellow (Ministry of Hemp Official Review)

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• Highlights: Hemp Mellow is a full spectrum, high absorption, effective, no hassle capsule choice. The true full-spectrum formula was deeply relaxing, easing symptoms of stress and anxiety.
• Strength: 25mg of cannabinoids per capsule, 30 capsules per bottle. Also available in 15-count bottle and and a sample pack with 4 capsules.
• Price: $9.99 – $69.95 
• Special: Use code MELLOWHOUR for 20% off!
• Customer Service and Shipping: Live chat, friendly customer service. Free shipping available.
• Returns: Hemp Mellow offers a 30 day guarantee.
• Independent Test Results: Online.
• Flavor & Texture: Neutral, no real taste. This is a dry formula, in a vegetable capsule.
• Ingredients: CBD Oil / Full-spectrum Hemp extract in Dry cream, Rice Hull concentrate, Organic Tapioca starch, Organic Gum arabic, Organic Sunflower oil, Organic Agave fiber (Fructan), Hemp Seed oil, Vegetable capsule. Contains Milk.
• Other: Hemp Mellow stands by their products with a 30-day return policy for unsatisfied customers.

On January 25, 2021, Ministry of Hemp conducted our own lab test of Hemp Mellow using Analytical 360, our trusted lab. Download test results here.

Hemp Mellow uses organically-grown U.S. hemp in all their products.

Kit O’Connell contributed to this review.

The post Hemp Mellow Delivers Potent Relaxation With ‘Nature’s Delivery System’ appeared first on Ministry of Hemp.

In episode 67 of the Ministry of Hemp podcast, our host Matt talks with Tomas Skrinskas, Founder and CEO of Ascension Sciences. As a CEO of a Canadian company that works with pharmaceutical companies in developing CBD based medicine, Tomas has a different perspective on the hemp market and how the Canadian government legislates hemp.

Tomas is also an expert on nanomedicines, so Matt and Tomas get into the topic of bioavailability. Ascension Sciences works to make CBD-based medicine more effective through nano-encapsulation, and he explains future of nano-encapsulation of CBD in drinks.

Matt also mentions our recent guide to CBD and CBN products that help you sleep.

About Tomas Skrinskas & Ascension Sciences

For over 15 years, Tomas Skrinskas has been at the leading edge of transformative health care technologies including computer assisted surgery, surgical robotics and genetic nanomedicines. His career began with research and engineering which provided a strong foundation for the business development and operations roles that followed. Tomas founded Ascension Sciences (Twitter: @AscensionSci), a R&D laboratory focused on nanoparticle development for cannabinoid products and therapeutics, in January 2019.

You’ve got hemp questions? We’ve got hemp answers!

Send us your hemp questions and you might hear them answered on one of our Hemp Q&A episodes. Send your written questions to us on Twitter, Facebook, matt@ministryofhemp.com, or call us and leave a message at 402-819-6417. Keep in mind, this phone number is for hemp questions only and any other inquiries for the Ministry of Hemp should be sent to info@ministryofhemp.com

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Canadian perspective on hemp & CBD: Complete episode transcript

Below you’ll find the complete transcript of episode 67 of the Ministry of Hemp podcast, “Canadian hemp and CBD”:

Ep 67 Transcript:

Matt Baum:
I’m Matt Baum. And this is the Ministry of Hemp podcast, brought to you by ministryofhemp.com, America’s leading advocate for hemp and hemp education.

Matt Baum:
Welcome back to the Ministry of Hemp podcast. And if you’re new here, welcome aboard. Nice to have you. Today on the show, we are going to talk about another way pharmaceutical companies are making CBD more readily available to your body after you ingest it, or even rub it on your skin.

Matt Baum:
I’ve spoken about bioavailability on this show before, Episode 62, specifically. In that episode, I spoke with Dr. Andrew Yates and Professor Saoirse [O’Sullivan 00:00:00:43], who developed a cocrystal that will improve the bioavailability of CBD. In a nutshell, your body doesn’t want to absorb this molecule very well. So we have to come up with creative ways, to get it to absorb into your system. Now, another way of doing this is nanotechnology, specifically nanoencapsulation.

Matt Baum:
Today on the show, my conversation is with Dr. Tomas Skrinskas, founder and CEO of Ascension Sciences. And what they do, is work with nanoencapsulation. Basically, taking these molecules and putting them in a really, really tiny container that helps your body absorb it. This is a Canadian company, so we were also able to talk about what it’s like to develop hemp-based medicine in Canada, as opposed to the US. And Tomas had some really interesting points that I hadn’t thought of. Here’s my conversation with Tomas Skrinskas, CEO of Ascension Sciences.

Getting to know Canadian hemp and CBD

Matt Baum:
Tomas, welcome to the Ministry of Hemp.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah. Thanks.

Matt Baum:
Glad to have you.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah, this is… I’m stoked. This is great.

Matt Baum:
I think you’re our first Canadian guest.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Outstanding.

Matt Baum:
Yeah. So we can put a pin in the Ministry of Hemp map now, which is cool.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah. That’s somewhat surprising, but no. Happy to speak for all of Canada, and to thank you. No, we’re happy to be here.

Matt Baum:
Perfect. So let’s talk about hemp in Canada, real quick. Hemp in Canada, and cannabis in Canada, period. Very different from hemp and marijuana, in the United States. You guys have quite the head start on us. Can you give us a quick little historical background of where you’re at, compared to where we are?

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah, I can. My entry into the industry, the space, is actually really only been in the last two years. So, a deep history buff, I am not. But what I’ve learned, in my short time is, I think there’s advantages and disadvantages to what we’re doing. So, one example is the CBD, an explosion of CBD, from hemp in the US, it’s actually a little more flexible or a little easier to work with those materials-

Matt Baum:
Really?

Tomas Skrinskas:
… or to develop products. Because it’s in the Farm Bill, and it’s all above board, and it’s easy-peasy. On the Canadian side, we have that CBD aspect that’s from hemp, but there’s just a lot more red flags and red tape and attention drawn, to make sure where it’s coming from and what it’s used for. So for us for example, we just assume and we treat our CBD, like it’s THC. We have to report and track and-

Matt Baum:
Oh, wow.

Tomas Skrinskas:
We can’t lose a drop of it. And then, that’s just to be certain that we’re doing everything right, because regulations are changing so fast. So all that to say, I missed the whole history part of your question, I just avoided it.

Matt Baum:
No, no, this is perfect.

Tomas Skrinskas:
But the difference-

Matt Baum:
This is perfect.

Tomas Skrinskas:
But the differences are there, that it’s sometimes easier, sometimes harder, but yeah. It’s, different.

Canadian hemp is nationally regulated

Matt Baum:
As I understand it, it’s one set of rules for the whole country, though. Basically it’s not province by province, if you will. Whereas, here in the States, we have different states with completely different cannabis laws. Some you can’t even drive cannabis through, let alone… Or even hemp, it’s nuts. So Canada is nationwide, though.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Correct. Yeah. There are some age differences, just like alcohol consumption is different in Quebec, and the Prairies and NBC, it changes by one year as you move around, and that goes for cannabis as well.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Tomas Skrinskas:
But yeah, across the country, we ship samples and all the rest like, bank. No problem. And all that is easy-peasy.

Matt Baum:
See, that’s a huge step up from us, right now. So, we’re having a lot of trouble. It’s about smaller companies, as well. When you turn and say, “Well, I can’t accept credit cards, because we can’t figure out if anything is insured,” and credit card companies don’t want to get in on that yet. It’s very difficult. And I think we look to Canada… You said, there’s a lot of red tape. We’re not, we’d kill for that red tape. At least there’s red tape. And we know we have to cut it, and get through it. We don’t even know, right now. Like, “Please give us some red tape, please.”

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah. For product development and the research that we want to do, we want it, we’re completely above board and all the rest, but we do compete with people who just neglect the legacy market. It’s called the legacy market-

Matt Baum:
Right.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Just neglects it, and keeps going. And they’ll become legal, and the government helps them become legal, so that’s the part that kind of pisses me off. Like, I’m doing it right. And some people are going to be doing it right, eventually, but they have this little advantage. They’re just kind of chugging along.

Matt Baum:
You say there’s a legacy market. Is that almost, when the laws were passed, or people that were already doing it this way? And Canada is nice enough to be like, “Well, you guys catch up when you can.” Is that, seriously, what’s going on?

Tomas Skrinskas:
That’s exactly what’s going on. And then there’s big consultancies and people helping them go from the gray market to the legal market. It’s the reality. Yeah. They can’t just shutter, or burn the crops or all the rest. There’s systems in place to help them become legal. And, I think that’s good.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Tomas Skrinskas:
It’s, fine.

Matt Baum:
But I assume there’s a lot of people that are dragging their feet, because this costs money.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Exactly. Yeah. The licensing process, you have to spend money to out… Security, and record-keeping, and all that-

Matt Baum:
Of course.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Quality, and all that, absolutely costs money. And it’s going to, some people won’t be able to make it, and maybe they’ll take that risk. And, some people won’t. Time will tell, time will tell.

Introducing Ascension Sciences

Matt Baum:
Right. Let’s talk about your background, for a minute. You said you got into this about two years ago. Tell me about Ascension Sciences.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yes. So, I had always been in the medical field. I did a master’s in biomedical engineering, and it wasn’t in particles and drug developments, so to speak. But all that to say, healthcare and hospitals and wellness, has always been part of my upbringing and then education, and career choices. And that brought me to a company called Precision NanoSystems where I came by nanotechnology, and nanoparticles. Meanwhile, they were doing, or they are doing, genetic medicine. But I saw the opportunity to mash that up with cannabinoids, which are essentially insoluble compounds, insoluble drugs, as we see them-

Matt Baum:
Right.

Tomas Skrinskas:
… [crosstalk 00:08:23] therapeutic. So they require these types of delivery systems and cocrystals. I listened to your absolutely handy podcast on bioavailability and cocrystals.

Matt Baum:
That was awesome, right? Those guys were so cool.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah, no, they’re legit. No, Artelo is doing real stuff. That’s the echelon, or that’s where we’re placing ourselves, we’re in health to therapeutic development. And so, all that to say is, this health technology background, mashed it up and then saw an opportunity. And that’s when Ascension Sciences started.

Matt Baum:
Why cannabis though? What drew you to that? It seems like there’s a lot… I don’t know if it’s safer, in Canada. I know Europe, and it sounds like Canada, definitely have better rules in place for people to develop these types of drugs. Where in the States, pharmaceuticals are still, they’re definitely planning. Don’t get me wrong. They’ve got these patents, and they’re ready as soon as they feel like it’s safe.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yes.

Matt Baum:
But, what drew you to cannabis?

Tomas Skrinskas:
Somewhat opportunistic. The market, and legalization, it just lowered the barrier for the research to be done. If your angle or your, if you’re prodding for my epiphany around the plant, and things of that nature, I think it’s a tool kit in any health and wellness situation. You don’t take your Tylenol to hurt your toe, without realizing that it’s your small shoes, that’s hurting your toe-

Matt Baum:
Right, exactly.

Tomas Skrinskas:
… take your shoes off. So in mental health and inflammation, and anxiety, it’s a tool. And I recognize that, it’s certainly been part of some situations for me. But, I’m opportunistic, as well. [crosstalk 00:10:16] there’s-

Matt Baum:
There’s nothing wrong with that. That’s a real answer, and I appreciate that. [inaudible 00:10:20].

Tomas Skrinskas:
Thank you. Yeah.

Matt Baum:
It’s nice to say, “I had a magic moment, and the sun hit me just right. And I looked at the [crosstalk 00:10:26] –

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah.

Matt Baum:
… [crosstalk 00:10:27] and it spoke.” And you’re like, “That’s great,” and all.

Tomas Skrinskas:
This is, it’s a little more calculated. It’s a little more calculated, than that. But…

Nanoparticle research and bioavailability

Matt Baum:
There’s nothing wrong with that, at all. So, what kind of stuff are you guys working on? You were talking about nanotechnology and nanoparticle development. Those are words that are thrown around a lot, and they’re not always thrown around by people that seem to know what it means. I’m not putting you on the spot. You seem to know exactly where you’re coming from on this, but I’ve definitely interviewed people where I’ve said, “Okay, well, tell me about this nanoencapsulation in your body balm,” or whatever. And they’re like, “Oh, it makes it really small, so it just slips right through.” I’m like, “Well, what does that mean? What are we talking about, here?”

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah. I kind of have the verbatim definition of nanotechnology. It’s just manipulating materials, molecules, at a very small scale for some advantage or purpose. So, in drug development, a lot of drugs require nanoparticles to be delivered, around the body. The best analogy is, like a delivery truck. The nanoparticle is the truck. Your drug is inside the truck. And the truck is driving around, getting to the right place at the right time, in the right concentration. And you can design this truck, this nanoparticle, to do those things.

Tomas Skrinskas:
And that’s where things get interesting. You’re replacing parts. You’re making big trucks, small trucks-

Matt Baum:
Sure, sure.

Tomas Skrinskas:
… all for various benefits, in your administration. Is it in your… Are you swallowing it? Is it under your tongue? Is it on your skin? You can design these to aid, or to tune release, depending on what you want and how you want it done.

Matt Baum:
So speaking to that, you, we mentioned cocrystals, and whatnot. I learned recently in that podcast, that your body naturally does not want to absorb these cannabinoids, because of the nature of the molecule itself. Can you shrink something down small enough, so that it is absorbed better? Or do you always need a cocrystal, carrier type thing?

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah, that’s a good question, or a good point to clarify. So, we’re not shrinking CBD. We’re-

Matt Baum:
Shrinking is the wrong word. Yeah. Anyone who says they are, is lying, basically.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah. Correct, but we’re packaging it, and we’re protecting it with other lipids or, things that, a shell around it. And we make it more stable, things of that nature. And cocrystals are, I would say, a competing technology to nanoparticles. When it comes to bioavailability. So you can, the fancy term is functionalize, the CBD. Where you attach something to it, and it becomes more soluble, more bioavailable. Our approach is to package all of the CBD into this matzo ball, and the matzo ball itself, is the soluble component.

Matt Baum:
I’m Jewish, so now you’re just making me hungry. Thanks.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Okay, sorry. I can, I [crosstalk 00:14:02] on that. That’s-

Matt Baum:
No, that’s perfect.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah. And then, there’s pros and cons, from IP to manufacturing costs, to actual reasons to do one or the other. For example, in nanoparticles, we like to draw attention to tuned release. So, long lasting or fast acting? So for pain, we can have a particle that releases it slowly, whereas a cocrystal, it might absorb it immediately, have the effect now for-

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Tomas Skrinskas:
… acute pain. So there’s all manner of reasons to do one or the other.

Fine tuning how fast CBD works

Matt Baum:
So in nanoparticle technology, we’ll call it, you can actually tune it to release fast or slow? Or is it a type of thing where, like a cocrystal is always going to be a fast release, and you have more control when it comes down to nanoparticles?

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah. This is a slippery slope. Where-

Matt Baum:
Or does it just not work like that? I have no idea. [crosstalk 00:15:18].

Tomas Skrinskas:
So, your tablet, your gel cap, has all sorts of other components in it. So the gel cap can dissolve slowly, so that’ll impart slow release-

Matt Baum:
Okay, sure. Sure.

Tomas Skrinskas:
… [crosstalk 00:15:33] so you could put cocrystals in your slow release cap, or your slow release tablet. So you can attain different features from both sides, but combining the two as well. There’s no reason that we couldn’t put cocrystal CBD into a nanoparticle, and just to have it be that much more bioavailable, that much more controlled and tuned release. And that’s where you start to look at the indication.

Tomas Skrinskas:
So again, Artelo is getting a lot of press here, for their PTSD applications and mental health situations. You can start to target the brain or wherever you want these things to collect, preferentially, in your body. That’s another reason nanoparticles become interesting.

Matt Baum:
So theoretically, you could say, “Okay, I want to make a capsule that is good for pain,” and that’s going to go through the whole body. As opposed to a capsule that’s good for anxiety, which might target part of the brain, instead.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Correct. Yeah.

Matt Baum:
That’s very cool.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Where, yeah.

Matt Baum:
So what kind of cannabinoid products are you guys working on, right now? What kind of therapeutics? Are you looking at guiding things directly towards like, “I want to treat PTSD,” or. “I want to treat seizure disorders.”

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah. Very good question. So, the short answer is, we do contract research. So we actually look for companies to bring their delivery problem, their therapeutic problem, to us. And we have kind of a toolkit of nanoparticles, and we can guide them, direct them, to some of our toolkit. And say, “This particle, it sounds like it will work. Let’s work together, and develop it further.” And that’s our preclinical development business model, at this stage of the company. That’s just somewhat of the reality of it being a six person, R & D licensed outfit. But we want to work with people like Artelo, and work with people like Cardiol and InMed, and GW Pharma. And, help them get their therapeutics to be more efficient, and help that many more people, by being better drugs.

Matt Baum:
So I own Company X, and theoretically, we’re working on a drug for Crohn’s disease. Very painful, and CBD or cannabinoids, have been shown to help a lot. I can come to your company and say, “How do we build this? What’s the best way to build it? What’s the best way to deliver it, and to target Crohn’s disease?” And that is what you work on.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Correct. Yep. So it-

Matt Baum:
That’s [crosstalk 00:18:39].

Tomas Skrinskas:
And then, Crohn’s is a good example, too. Because it has to get through the stomach, has to get through that environment. We want it to get as deep into the gut, into the large intestine, and there’s these like multi matrix systems that coat your gut lining. And so it’s, that’s a very interesting application. Or, you’re going the suppository route, so there’s… That’s all well, and good.

Matt Baum:
It’s a quick way to get there, I suppose, yeah.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah, cut the corners. And, but nano, in those applications, is absolutely relevant.

Researching bioavailability and CBD treatments

Matt Baum:
So give me just, a rough idea. Let’s stick with Crohn’s disease, and we want to develop a pill. How does this start? You have to decide, like you said, it’s got to go through the mouth. It’s got to go through the stomach, and you want it to end in the large intestine, before it releases any of these particles. Are you designing every part of this drug, with that in mind? Like, “We’re going to need this thick of a capsule. We’re going to need this type of nanoencapsulation,” and whatnot?

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah. It’s a big undertaking. Yeah. This isn’t something that we even have all the expertise under one roof, that’s why we’re very much preclinical. And you could take our formulation, and put it on cells. You could put it into a small animal model, and that’s where we would start to step up and scope the project appropriately.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Tomas Skrinskas:
But yeah, you’re not wrong where, we can guide you on a capsule technology, but what’s going in the capsule is our stuff.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Or if it’s in a dry tablet form, the excipient systems like the other components of the tablet. We’ll give you a short list, but ours is the active ingredient. And then, start to develop it further. But you certainly have to start with the active, and how it’s packaged. But it’s, developing a drug and dosage form, is many small steps. So we’re part of that value chain, if you will.

Matt Baum:
Let’s talk about your active ingredient. You said, “Our stuff is in it.” This is not the same hemp that you go to the CBD place. And they know the farmer, “And it was harvested down the street and we de cord it, and it’s beautiful,” and whatever. “And then we put it, and drip it under here, and it’s great.”

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah.

Matt Baum:
This is not the same stuff. What are you guys dealing with? Where does your CBD come from?

Tomas Skrinskas:
It’s isolate, or synthesized, CBD. And we’re trying to assess the differences, they have different, even those two broad categories have different implications on the particles. And then it also comes down to what segments you’re servicing. And like, health product or drug development? And do people care about naturally sourced? Or, the synthesized version is chemically equivalent, but the jury is still out on exactly what’s happening there.

Tomas Skrinskas:
And, yeah. The short answer is, we’re at that studying phase of all that. And then, we’ll happily characterize any nanoparticles from it with any source of active.

Matt Baum:
Just whatever works best, for whatever’s needed, more or less.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Correct. Yeah. All our R & D right now is with isolate, but that’s kind of almost [crosstalk 00:22:34]-

Matt Baum:
Why isolate? Can I ask? Does isolate, is it because it’s easier to point it, like a bullet, towards the target that you want?

Tomas Skrinskas:
Well, no, actually. It’s more stable in, a little bit will last longer in our fridge, just for practical reasons.

Matt Baum:
Fair enough.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah. Because it’s the kind of purist, or I guess rawest form of CBD, we can add things. It’s always easier to add things. So, it’s not in a carrier oil, so we can choose the carrier oil. If we want it to be refined or added with terpenes, to kind of bring it back to a distillate or a full spectrum format, for research purposes.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Tomas Skrinskas:
That, we can do. So it allows us flexibility, and again, that’s somewhat of the shorter answer there.

Matt Baum:
So isolate, because it’s just, it’s easier to control. You know exactly what is there. And you can always add-

Tomas Skrinskas:
Correct.

Matt Baum:
… but you can’t… Like when you’re cooking. You can always put salt in, but it’s very hard to take it out. Basically.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yep.

Matt Baum:
Makes perfect sense.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah.

Matt Baum:
And you guys work with both the health and the pharmaceutical industry?

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah. That’s where we see it. We entertain calls for beverages or… We don’t make chocolate bars and gummy formulations. Dosages continue to be an issue.

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Tomas Skrinskas:
And the application still exists, but yeah, it’s Startup 101, is just focus. Find something you’re good at. So, I even find those two segments, like health and wellness, and then pharma, still leaves us a little open to being too broad. But the technology is a little more relevant. Concentrations are higher, it’s not just five or 10 milligrams. So, when you get to higher concentrations, nano becomes even more important.

Bioavailability in CBD drinks

Matt Baum:
Right. Absolutely. So let me ask you, you said, you entertain the idea of beverages. Have you guys worked with any beverage companies? Are you working with any? And you don’t have to name anybody. Obviously, it’s proprietary stuff, but.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Short answer is, we have. But, it’s somewhat opportunistic.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Tomas Skrinskas:
But it, again, they haven’t been big products.

Speaker 3:
Da-da.

Matt Baum:
It’s okay. This is edited. Don’t worry about it. I’m going to edit this. So, don’t sweat it.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Okay. Hey [Lawrence 00:00:25:20], go away.

Matt Baum:
I love you, go away.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah, I know.

Speaker 3:
[crosstalk 00:25:26].

Matt Baum:
Do you see a future? As soon as, in the States anyway, as soon as this bears out and the Food and Drug Administration says, “Here’s how we want it done in food. And here’s how we want it done in medicine.” There’s going to be a massive market, huge. And you know that Coke, Pepsi, these major companies, are just sitting on this and waiting. But, from my understanding, it’s actually very difficult to, maybe not infused CBD into a drink, but infuse it well. And make it, so that it works.

Matt Baum:
There was this fad of CBD water going around for a while. It was like, “Yeah, CBD infused water.” And if you speak to anybody who works in this industry, or does any testing, they will tell you, “Well, if it’s clear, there’s nothing in there.”

Tomas Skrinskas:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Matt Baum:
Do you see this as, is it going to be a bigger challenge to do in the beverage market than it would be in a pill, for example?

Tomas Skrinskas:
Well, it’ll absolutely be a challenge, going… When you’re talking about Coke and Pepsi and these types of companies, where budget is not, R & D budget and product development budget, is not a problem. And they have teams, buildings full of scientists.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Tomas Skrinskas:
It’s not going to be a problem.

Matt Baum:
Fair enough.

Tomas Skrinskas:
So, yeah. I think, like you say, what they are waiting for is just a bit of a more open environment, so they can flip the switch. Then it’ll be game on. And some are doing it either through subsidiaries, or partnerships, so it doesn’t say Coke on the front of the building.

Matt Baum:
Of course, of course.

Tomas Skrinskas:
But, they’re developing. And, these emulsifying technologies, which is the predominant one for, the predominant nano approach for beverages, it exists. It has existed, for a while. In food and beverage science, culinary science, cannabis did not invent culinary science.

Matt Baum:
No. No. [Manny’s 00:27:49] invented culinary science, I think. Right?

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah.

Matt Baum:
[inaudible 00:27:53]. So, you said you worked on a beverage. Is it just emulsifying CBD, into the beverage? Is that basically it? Because it can’t be the same as putting it in a tincture, or in a pill, where you can surround it with some type of fat. Or a cocrystal, or something. They’re not going to put cocrystals in your Gatorade. That’s ridiculous. Is it just a matter of emulsifying it, so it’s small enough that it’s in there?

Tomas Skrinskas:
The emulsifying stabilizes it, so it just prevents all the little oil droplets from coming together, and being one big oil droplet, so that you see an oil droplet in it. Like your-

Matt Baum:
That’s like a bow [crosstalk 00:28:31]-

Tomas Skrinskas:
… salad dressing.

Matt Baum:
… type thing, where you’re like, “Ugh. There’s this weird CBD fish egg, that I just drank.”

Tomas Skrinskas:
But, Gatorade’s a good example. Gatorade is an emulsion, itself, even though it’s clear and orange, or whatever color it is. If it does sit on the shelf for months, you’ll see powder and stuff settle out of it. So, even that’s not a perfect emulsion. It’s out there, doing good things. So, the CBD part isn’t, into beverages, is challenging. I don’t want to disregard all the good science that people are doing to solve it, because there’s still unknowns. But we’re not talking like, Nobel Prize of Chemistry.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Tomas Skrinskas:
[crosstalk 00:29:23] a problem, here.

Matt Baum:
“You did it, you whipped CBD into whipped cream.”

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah.

Matt Baum:
“Congratulations.”

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah. Congratulations.

Matt Baum:
“You’re a household name.” Yeah. What kind of-

Tomas Skrinskas:
Sorry, COVID vaccine, you… Step aside.

Matt Baum:
“Yeah, that was last year. This year, we’re all feeling mellow.”

Tomas Skrinskas:
Exactly.

The future of Ascension Sciences & Canadian hemp research

Matt Baum:
So Tomas, what’s next for Ascension Sciences? Where do you go from here?

Tomas Skrinskas:
I think what we’re trying to do, is really demonstrate just how versatile some of these drugs and nanoparticle combinations are. So that’s where we have our toolkit and, we didn’t touch on liposomes. We didn’t touch on polymer nanoparticles, solid lipid nanoparticles. They all have different features and functions, and each one can have a deep dive, and those are the types of groups we like to work with, and that are health and R & D focused. And want to take their therapeutics to the next level. But yeah, it’s exciting times for little companies in Canada, and I think it’s doing it right. And no, but I think you’ve, even… Not, you’re not a lay person, lay-lay person. I think you talk to enough people, and you touch on-

Matt Baum:
I’m a lay person, trust me.

Tomas Skrinskas:
But if it’s resonated with you, I feel our message is hitting the right chords. So, as long as that message is received, we love to hear from people and what problems they might have, so that we can help them solve them with our expertise and our abilities. That’s what we’re here to do. That’s the kind of the note I would end on.

Matt Baum:
I just, one final thing. I want to-

Tomas Skrinskas:
Oh, yeah.

Matt Baum:
I want to let people know that, I get very excited when I speak to doctors and scientists, that are willing to talk about this. Because, there is a future here, there is a there, there. It is a thing. It’s coming. It works. There are tests that show this. And there’s so many people that want to write off CBD as a fad. Stuff that, “It’s a bunch of people feeding you olive oil telling you that you feel good,” but this is real. This is really happening.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah.

Matt Baum:
Real pharmaceutical companies and doctors and researchers, and R & D people like yourself, are doing this for a reason. Tell me it’s because it’s real, and this is the future. Because it makes me feel better.

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah, no. It’s absolutely real, though, what gives me confidence or what I come back to is that, I don’t think this is a blockbuster drug, but it has the ability in a very, very safe way, to help so many different conditions.

Matt Baum:
Yeah.

Tomas Skrinskas:
And, I don’t want to put the business spin on it, but at an over-the-counter price. And it can replace so many, not so nice drugs, as well. That’s the exciting part as well. The pain medication, the opioids, the antianxiety stuff that people get hooked on. This has real applications, in a safe way. You can’t overdose, those types of things.

Tomas Skrinskas:
It still needs to be studied. And, you want to be sure you’re doing it for the right reasons. And I guess, what I mentioned, initially. It’s not a magic thing, you need to, if you’re taking something to help make you feel better, you need to also address the problem, the source.

Matt Baum:
Right.

Tomas Skrinskas:
The… Make sure you’re also eating properly and getting outside, for your mental health, on CBD.

Matt Baum:
Yeah, you can’t just be like, “I’m fat. And I feel horrible. I want to take a pill and just feel better.”

Tomas Skrinskas:
Yeah, yeah.

Matt Baum:
That Snot how it works, unfortunately.

Tomas Skrinskas:
So, it’s part of a system, and I think it actually is a critical part. So, don’t forget the system, though.

Matt Baum:
Yeah. So, where do we keep up with you? How do we keep up with the Ascension Sciences, and see what’s coming and what you’re working on?

Tomas Skrinskas:
One of the things I wanted to direct people to is, our social media channels. Our LinkedIn-

Matt Baum:
Definitely.

Tomas Skrinskas:
… our @AscensionSci. Correct, Melody? As long as I got that right. @AscensionSci. And we’re quite active on LinkedIn, we’re posting other people’s research, as well as our own. So it’s a place to just keep in tune.

Matt Baum:
Yeah. You’re, is it, a six person team? Is that right?

Tomas Skrinskas:
Depending on what day you ask me, but, yeah. Yep, it’s some key advisors, some hardworking folks that have put the time in from internships, and kind of stayed on with us. And some postdocs.

Matt Baum:
It’s so cool. And I don’t think there is another, and maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think there is another drug frontier out there where you have very small groups, like punk rock groups of R & D people that are like, “Yeah, we can work… You know how to do that? Good. I know how to do this. Let’s team up. We’ll work on it.” You, “I know a guy that can do this, and we’ll contact,” it’s just like back in the day, where my dumb band was putting out seven inches. And we had a friend that printed T-shirts, and we had another friend that had a van. So we made him the bass player, so he could drive. And stuff like that, so.

Tomas Skrinskas:
That’s the way it is.

Matt Baum:
I think it’s awesome. Thanks so much for your time. I’m going to let you guys get out of here, because it’s getting late.

Tomas Skrinskas:
No, cheers.

Final thoughts from Matt

Matt Baum:
As always, you’ll be able to find all the links that Tomas mentioned in the show notes, along with some other cool notes. And here at the Ministry of Hemp, we believe that a more accessible world is better for everyone, so you can also find a full written transcript there, as well.

Matt Baum:
Thank you for joining me for another episode. And if you’re digging these episodes, and you like the information here, it really does help if you give us a thumbs up or even a short written review, wherever you download your podcasts. It just lifts us in the search algorithms, and helps other people find this info. And speaking of this info, you can find more hemp education info over at ministryofhemp.com.

Matt Baum:
The holidays can be a stressful time of year, especially this year, where COVID has made them very different. And a major part of managing your anxiety is getting your sleep. We just happen to have a best CBD for sleep article up at ministryofhemp.com, right now. It’s all about CBD and CBN products that will help you get to sleep and stay asleep, without feeling hung over in the morning. Very cool stuff.

Matt Baum:
You can also follow us on all our social media. We are @MinistryofHemp or \MinistryofHemp, and we’re always kicking out great information on all things hemp. And if you want to help us continue to get that information out, head over to patreon.com/ministryofhemp and become a Ministry of Hemp insider. Any amount you give makes you an insider, and gets you early access to articles, podcast extras, and all kinds of other stuff. Not to mention the fact, it helps us so much. And a huge thanks goes out to everyone that already has signed up for our Patreon.

Matt Baum:
This is probably going to be the last episode for the year. And I want to thank everybody that stayed with me this year, or came on and found us this year. We don’t have a show without you guys. And your input has been fantastic, just on my guide, learning about this amazing plant and what it can do for the world. Thank you, so much.

Matt Baum:
2020 was not the best of years, I totally agree. But we stuck with it. We did it. We maintained, we took care of ourselves, and 2021 is already looking brighter for everyone. And I’ll be right here, with the rest of the Ministry of Hemp gang, to keep bringing you this news in the new year. So, thank you. And I hope you plan to stick around for more.

Matt Baum:
I like to end the show the same way every time. And this is the last time I’ll be doing it in 2020, but remember to take care of yourself, remember to take care of others and make good decisions, will you? Have a safe and happy holiday, and of course, a happy new year. I’ll see you in 2021. This is Matt Baum, with the Ministry of Hemp, signing off.

The post Canadian Hemp & Cutting Edge CBD Research, With Ascension Sciences appeared first on Ministry of Hemp.

Welcome to episode 62 of the Ministry of Hemp Podcast. In this episode, Matt talks Dr. Andrew Yates, scientific consultant, and Professor Saorise Sullivan, scientific advisor and consultant. They developed a “cocrystal” that will improve the bio-availability of CBD. The two authored a paper about the cocrystal that is being used in the treatment of PTSD in clinical trials in Europe. The conversation touches on how CBD has trouble being absorbed in the human body, why the cocrystal they developed works, and how it could change the way we take CBD.

Matt also mentions his discussion with Dr. Matthew Halpert about a CBD study on aging dogs with arthritis, which used a similar bioavailability booster.

About Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan and Andrew Yates

Professor Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan (@ScienceSaoirse) received her doctorate from Trinity College Dublin in 2001 and moved to the University of Nottingham in 2002 as a Research fellow where she began researching cannabinoid pharmacology through basic and clinical research.  She was made Lecturer in 2007, Associate Professor in 2011 and Full Professor in 2019.  She has over 40 peer-reviewed articles and 3 books chapters on the topic of cannabinoid pharmacology.  In 2016, she was named the International Cannabinoid Research Society Young Investigator of the Year. In 2017, Saoirse set up an independent consulting company called CanPharmaConsulting Ltd, and through this, acts as scientific advisor to companies like Artelo Biosciences, CBDScience Group, Therapix Biosciences and Dragonfly Biosciences.

Dr. Andy Yates has more than 20 years’ experience in the pharmaceutical industry including 10 years as an executive at AstraZeneca. Andy Yates is a UK registered pharmacist who received his PhD in cannabinoid medicinal chemistry from the University of Nottingham. Recently he has acted as an independent consultant and scientific advisor for the Biotech, Life-Sciences, Wellbeing and not-for-profit sectors; predominantly within the expanding cannabinoid field. Andy holds an academic position at the University of Keele.

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Send us your hemp questions and you might hear them answered on one of our Hemp Q&A episodes. Send your written questions to us on Twitter, Facebook, matt@ministryofhemp.com, or call us and leave a message at 402-819-6417. Keep in mind, this phone number is for hemp questions only and any other inquiries for the Ministry of Hemp should be sent to info@ministryofhemp.com

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CBD cocrystals: Complete episode transcript

Below you’ll find the complete transcript of episode 62 of the Ministry of Hemp podcast, “A ‘Cocrystal’ Could Change The Way We Take CBD”:

Ep 62 Transcript:

Matt Baum:
I’m Matt Baum. And this is The Ministry of Hemp Podcast brought to you by ministryofhemp.com, America’s leading advocate for hemp and hemp education. Welcome to episode 62 in Ministry of Hemp Podcast and in the little over a year that I’ve been doing this show, I’ve learned a lot about you guys, the listeners. Not just from talking to you when you call our phone line at (402) 819-6417, which you can call, leave a message with your questions at any time. We love to answer your questions on the show.
I’ve also learned a lot about you guys from the comments that are left on the podcast posts on our website, ministryofhemp.com. Based on your calls and your comments, it seems like there are a lot of you that are interested in wellness and then there are others of you that are interested in medicine, medicine as in, I have a condition, will this help. And wellness being, hey, I know I feel better when I do this after I work out or this helps me sleep, neither of which are bad, but on the medicine side, things can get really scary for some people when we start talking about pharmaceuticals and pharmaceutical companies.

I’m not going to get into the debate of whether or not they are giant evil corporations controlled by lizard people who want to drug us through the gills so we can’t pay attention to what’s going on anymore, although 2020 did kind of feel like that. But I will say there is something to be said for the rigorous amount of testing and study that goes into producing a drug for human consumption.

Today on the show, I’m going to talk to two scientists. They’re both out of England and they’re both scientific advisors for a company called Artelo. They recently wrote a paper about increasing the bioavailability of CBD. Now we know that there is evidence that CBD has certain effects on the human body and the brain, it helps with anxiety. It can help with pain and inflammation, but one of the major problems with CBD is it’s very hard for your body to process it, to actually pull it in and take it out of whatever it’s in and introduce it into your bloodstream, where it needs to get.

And that’s why a lot of different companies infuse it into tinctures and oils and pills and whatnot. Well, what they are working on is called a cocrystal, which is fairly popular in pharmaceutical, from what I understand from our conversation. But this cocrystal basically bonds with the CBD molecule and makes it far more bioavailable than it’s ever been before. This was an amazing conversation. And you’re going to hear in the very beginning, I had no idea what I was talking about going into it. I was trying to sound smart and they very quickly correct me. And then we have a really good conversation.

Now we’re not going to get into crazy heavy science here, I promise, but what they are talking about could really change this business and just blow it wide open. Today on the show, I’m speaking with professor Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan and Dr. Andy Yates. Like I said, the two work together with Artelo to create something really incredible. And the more incredible part is it’s not far off, it could be coming soon. Here’s my conversation with professor Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan and Dr. Andrew Yates.

What is a CBD cocrystal?

So we are going to talk about a drug that you guys are developing, and it’s one of the first patents and correct me if I’m wrong here, but from what I understand, it’s one of the first pharmaceutical patents that has been issued using CBD or hemp.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
So I wouldn’t say that it’s necessarily the first patent because other people have patents. For example, GW pharmaceuticals have patents on their version of CBD that they use in epilepsy. It’s just probably the first composition of musher patent, is that right Andy? In terms of a new molecular structure or a new way of presenting CBD in this cocrystal format. So it’s not a use patent, it’s a composition of musher patent. There’s probably other kind of structural variants on CBD where people have kind of played around with the molecular structure and there’ll be patterns on those also. But in terms of kind of pure CBD, this would be a first.

Matt Baum:
Okay. So let’s talk about that for a second. We’re talking about the molecular structure and you guys have come up with a new, you use the word crystalline structure basically.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Yes.

Matt Baum:
So what is the structure that we start with when we’re looking at, and tell me if I’m using the words right, a CBD molecule.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Molecule. Yes. No, that’s right. So [inaudible 00:05:12] how it’s built out of its different elements is the molecular structure. And so CBD is CBD when you put together those elements in the right order, in the right orientation, you come up with the molecule that is CBD.

Matt Baum:
Okay. And you guys have affected it in a way that you can make it more potent, more useful.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
And so what Artelo have done is they’ve formed a cocrystal. So this is where you take a molecule of CBD and you bring it together with another compound, which in our case is a molecule that’s used in Chinese medicine. So they’ve brought them together in what’s called a cocrystal. And so that changes the physical properties of the molecule because CBD has some physical properties that don’t make it very easily usable as a medicine. So we need to try and improve its solubility and its absorption.
And one way that pharmaceutical companies go by fast is to make something as a cocrystal and attach it onto something else. And that can change the physical properties of this molecule that you’re interested in, in order to make it more druggable and easier to give to person and basically better and more consistent exposure to that drug within the patient.

Matt Baum:
So the idea that we have [crosstalk 00:06:35]. Go ahead, I’m sorry.

Andy Yates:
I was going to say if I may come in. We’ve taken everything that we love, if you wish, about CBD, [inaudible 00:06:41] exactly the same, but taken away some of the bits that we don’t love about CBD, which is its crystallinity, its melting point, potential stability and it’s bioavailability and we’ve added something else into it as an integral part of the crystal structure. And we hope that that will improve the way that we can use CBD as a medicine.

Matt Baum:
So basically the CBD molecule is kind of a jerk, and we know it does good stuff, but this jerk doesn’t want to play with your system very well.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Exactly.

Matt Baum:
And you have created something, a friend that is saying, “Hey, take it easy jerk. Let’s get along.”

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
And they’re holding to this hand as they work through the body.

Matt Baum:
Yeah. Settle CBD down, walks him into the body and says, all right, see, you feel better now, right? And he goes, okay. I was nervous, it was nothing, my bad.

Andy Yates:
That’s a great analogy. Very well characterized.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Yeah. That’s pretty much it.

Traditional Chinese Medicine, TMP and the CBD cocrystal

Matt Baum:
I’m for hire if you need a PR department. So just let me know. I’m really good at boiling this stuff down if nothing else. I’ll be truly, honestly, I tried to prepare for this and I went back through like all my college chemistry [inaudible 00:07:47], oh God, it’s gone, it’s just gone. And I’m like, I’m going to sound like the biggest steady hits. So thank you for bearing with me on this one.

So the cocrystal you’ve created, you said it’s from Chinese medicine. Now I am a skeptic by nature, and so when I hear a term like Chinese medicine, my first knee-jerk reaction is, oh boy, that sounds a little out there and whatnot. But-

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
And it’s funny because that’s the reaction some people have about cannabis-based medicine.

Matt Baum:
I did when I got into this.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
And the molecule that we’ve used in the cocrystal is something where we know the molecule really well. It’s something that’s really widely used in Chinese medicine and has kind of widespread clinical use, lots of clinical trials, it’s the particular active ingredient of this plant. It’s very similar story to CBD and the cannabis plant as this molecule, which is called Tetramethylpiperidine or TMP.

Matt Baum:
We’ll go with TMP for the rest of the interview.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Yeah. It’s very analogist between the plants and the active molecules.

Matt Baum:
Okay. So it’s part of Chinese medicine in the sense that it’s part of several plants, I guess, that are used in Chinese medicine. So it happens to be there.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Yeah.

Matt Baum:
And I guess my question was, what worried me was like you said, there’s been lots of clinical studies that show that this works as a binder. What other kinds of stuff does this TMP molecule bind to? What else does it help with?

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Sorry, it’s not that it is used in Chinese medicine as a binder, it’s used as itself, as the molecule, as a drug in Chinese medicine.

Matt Baum:
I guess it happens to be there.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Yeah. And to be honest, that’s not why it was chosen. There was a chemistry screening process where lots of different potential co-formers were assessed because not all, you have the analogy of the two guys walking through the body hand in hand, not all molecules want to be friends. And there was only a few of them in the chemistry screening that was done. There was only a few that actually wanted to hold hands with CBD.
And it just happened that TMP was one of them. The fact that TMP has its own clinical profile is wonderful. And in best case scenario might add some advantage onto the artillery CBD cocrystal, but actually that’s not why it’s there. It’s there really just to be holding the hand of the CBD. And if it adds to CBD then wonderful, but it was kind of happenstance that it was one of the ones that came along that did want to hold hands with CBD.

Matt Baum:
Andy, you were going to say.

Andy Yates:
And also of interest to your listeners, not only does it have a usage in traditional Chinese medicine, but it also has a use in food flavoring.

Matt Baum:
Oh good.

Andy Yates:
So it’s bringing a coffee mocha vibe to CBD. The tones of a TMP are used often in coffee and mocha flavored free products.

Matt Baum:
Really?

Andy Yates:
Yeah.

Matt Baum:
So when you go get like a McFlurry or something, which is, we all agree is not coffee, but has the vaguest hint of coffee flavor, there could be TMP involved.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
There could be TMP in there. Yeah.

Andy Yates:
It could indeed.

Using CBD to treat PTSD

Matt Baum:
Interesting. So this drug that Artelo is developing is going to be tested for PTSD and-

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Yeah. It’s a variety of different areas that Artelo are interested in, but PTSD is definitely one of the, probably the first areas of interest. There’s other conditions in which CBD is useful, like inflammatory bowel disease and stroke. And so they’re also kind of on the horizon, but PTSD is probably the first indication that Artelo would try and pursue through clinical research.

Matt Baum:
Okay. So why PTSD? How did we happen upon that? Is it because of the anti-anxiety factors of CBD? And I guess my next question is, is it worth going after CBD to treat this, so much so that you created a cocrystal to help the body accept it better, whereas there are already other treatments for PTSD that are out there? Is this one, do you believe from what you’ve seen in your research, do you believe this is worth it and will be a better treatment?

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
So both of those things are true. So it’s because CBD is very good at reducing anxiety and there’s quite a good evidence-based from scientific and clinical literature to show that. And there’s an awful lot of research going on in this area. So we are not the only people who think that CBD is a good [inaudible 00:12:37] agent.
There’s lots of research going on there, but in order to develop a licensed medicine, we need something that is going to be really good. Good bioavailability, getting good absorption, good stability, all the things you want from a good drug and have patentability, because if you’re going to develop a medicine it’s quite a costly process.

Matt Baum:
Of course.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
So we need a good CBD, a reliable CBD that we can give in specific doses and that we can prove in an area which is probably considered to be an area of unmet need. So there are medications available for PTSD, but they’re not without their side effects and some of them can have limited efficacy. So I think that people who work in this area would say, there’s definitely a need for a new medicine in PTSD and CBD is really emerging as something that is of interest in lots of different anxiety disorders, it’s not just PTSD but-

Matt Baum:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
… things like central anxiety disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, social phobia, there’s lots of research going on that points to controlled, randomized controlled data the points to CBD being effective in these areas.

Improving CBD bioavailability with a cocrystal

Andy Yates:
And two additional adds to that, one of the other big parts of PTSD is ability to sleep. And CBD well is unknown aid to sleeping and we think that would obviously help the syndrome itself. And the other aspect is that if you are not going down that route of, as you said, coupling it with a friend to help into the body, the other way of doing it, as I’m sure you’ve seen from shops that sell CBD is to dissolve it in oil.

Matt Baum:
This is my next question. I’m glad you’re going there.

Andy Yates:
You have to hold it under your tongue. And I think what we’ve done with this sort of friendly crystal is that you could start to think about form relate in this now in a capsule or a pill, which I think most people would agree is a much more convenient way to take CBD for the majority of the people. I’m not saying that’s for everyone or the companies like GW have been developing medicines for children, so they’re quite happy to put CBD in an oil or an alcoholic based solution.
So we’ve really got an advantage there with our cocrystal, when it comes to thinking that we’ve designed or we’ve pre-programmed into the solid form, some good characteristics that will make it easily or more easily atunable to a tablet form.

Matt Baum:
So Andrew, let me ask you based on what you were saying, bioavailability, I’m glad you went there because that was my exact next question. This cocrystal is designed to help the body accept CBD better. If I’m not using that, if I just say, have a tincture, a high quality CBD tincture like you said, and I’m putting it under my tongue, what would you say is the amount of CBD that I’m going to, just percentage wise, rough percentage wise versus what I would get from CBD with this cocrystal.

Andy Yates:
I would love to be able to give you a flavor of that. We’re actually doing that work right now to understand it. And I think it would be disingenuous of me to say where those levels could be.

Matt Baum:
You scientists.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
We can say in general that the fact that, and if you’re using a sublingual oil, just of any type of CBD, we’re not talking about our CBD, but probably the bioavailability is maybe 20% to 25% under the tongue, whereas if you’re just taking a cocktail or a tablet orally, it’s probably less than 10%. So just in general terms [crosstalk 00:16:30]

Matt Baum:
I was holding my bottle like, how much am I getting when I pour this in my eyeballs.

Andy Yates:
I’m sorry. I thought you were asking what the difference would be between our cocrystal and what you can get.

Matt Baum:
No. I guess just more broadly. It seems like there’s a lot of research going into this that we have found, like you said, CBD does not want to be absorbed by our body very well. So we put it in carrier liquids, we put it in powder forms. We nano encapsulated stuff.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
We inhale it.

Matt Baum:
We inhale it. Yeah.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
That’s what we’ve always done because actually inhalation is still the best methods, delivery methods in terms of getting as much of the drug into your system as possible. It may not stay around for very long, but there’s a reason why people have always inhaled.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
But people like to take drugs orally, people like to take tablets, as Andrew said. And if we know that with the tablet only 10% of that drug is going to get into the system, then clearly what pharmaceutical companies want to do is make a tablet that has better bioavailability because that drug is being wasted. 90% of that drug is being excreted. So it’s not good, it’s not good for the economy, it’s not good for the environment.

Matt Baum:
Yes, it’s not good for anybody.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
It’s not good for the patients.

Andy Yates:
And it’s also around the variability as well. We know as Saoirse said that taking a tablet when you’ve got an empty many will be different for your bioavailability for when you take a tablet and you’ve eaten a meal, typically if the meal is fatty.

Matt Baum:
Of course.

Andy Yates:
These things can really affect. If one day it’s a 10% bioavailability and the next it’s a 25% bioavailability, you can expect that you’re going to get lower and higher efficacy and safety side effects.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Andy Yates:
So if we can bring a crystal to the market, which does things just more reproducibly, both within the same patient and between patients so that every person in the clinical trial, every person using the drug, you take the pill, you get 20%, that’s a much better place than where we are now, where it’s a bit of a sort of coin toss of whether you’re going to get a low or a high dose today.

Matt Baum:
Right. So just the fact that you can establish what we all got X, that’s a starting point that we have not had-

Andy Yates:
Absolutely.

Will cocrystals change the CBD market?

Matt Baum:
… up to this point yet, because of all the different ways that it’s being taken, the different ways it’s being delivered, to the different potencies and whatnot. Now this sure sounds like when this research comes out and it’s accepted, it sure sounds like it’s kind of going to blow the entire CBD market up pretty badly, in the sense that a lot of people that are making claims, which is good. I think it’s a good thing, but a lot of people that are making claims like this is the best way to do it, or we have the highest quality or all of a sudden the bioavailability is going to come into play. And now that you can prove, well, this cocrystal increases bioavailability, this is kind of where everybody has to go next, right?

Andy Yates:
So I think for me, it’s yeah, it is. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. If this delivers everything we think it can deliver, promise what you think it can promise, then it is a game changer for CBD in many respects, because suddenly it’s the go-to form. And we’re talking here whether it’s be the wellbeing market, the one that we, over-the-counter, but particularly in the pharmaceutical field, it’s the go-to form that you would be putting your money, your energy into so that the patients are getting that reliable, consistent dosing and stay higher dosing.
For the pharmaceutical industry, as one of the connotation. And sometimes profits and intellectual property is a bit of a dirty word. But in order for any pharmaceutical company to spend the tens/hundreds of millions of dollars to turn a drug into a PTSD therapy or a PTSD therapy or another therapy area, it has to know that it’s able to recover and make some money for it’s shareholders who put their money in at risk.

Matt Baum:
Of course.

Andy Yates:
And what we found so far, and if you look at a company like GW, is that it stayed away from areas which it doesn’t have this, what they call orphan drug protection behind it. So all of these conditions that their trial in, their drug in tends to be in small groups of patients that they wouldn’t normally have a therapy designed for them, but people like the FDA and the European equivalents give us special dispensation for people who develop medicines in orphan drugs. And one of them is they call it data exclusivity. So if you spend money, develop a drug in an orphan indication, you get rewarded by the regulators with a longer period of time before people can start piggybacking on your data.

Matt Baum:
That’s amazing.

Andy Yates:
That’s great.

Matt Baum:
So if you do that here, you just get fired and then you get made fun of in the news. And maybe you get shot. I don’t know, it’s America. So things are crazy right now.

Andy Yates:
That’s right. It’s really great. But what it does do is it limits where people will spend their money developing CBD right now.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Andy Yates:
And I think with a cocrystal, you take the handcuffs off and you allow people like Artelo, or it may be others that want to come in and work with Artelo and borrow or pay us to borrow our technology. Suddenly you can start developing in diseases that aren’t orphan drug and know that your investment is protected through the patent that you brought up right at the very beginning of the show.

Matt Baum:
Right. It’s kind of an early game, but it’s a game you have to play if you’re going to bring this to market. And if this will do what you think it’s going to do… It’s pretty amazing because like you said, there can’t be a whole lot of money in PTSD treatment. It’s not like something we see TV commercials. Do you have PTSD? Maybe you can talk to your doctor about [Narco flex 00:22:39] or whatever. So I think the fact that you, it makes me feel a little better that you guys are developing a drug for something like PTSD to show that it works there. And then from there it opens up.

The immense potential of CBD drugs

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
And then you go on. Yeah. As Andy is saying, the beauty here is with that IP behind you, you have the potential to go into much bigger patient populations. But ultimately this is going to be good to patients because Epidiolex is only available for these very rare forms of epilepsy, but every kid with epilepsy wants it, but that’s not what it has it’s license for, because they’ve down that route, whereas if we can produce something which is going to hit a much bigger patient population, then that’s obviously going to be really good.
And yeah, you start with PTSD, but then you might go into generalized anxiety, then you might go into other mental health conditions or a sleep, if you get a good signal with sleep, you might go into insomnia. You’ve just got to start somewhere and somewhere where you’ve got good hope that it’s going to be successful as well.
And actually PTSD is on the rise. And especially in the post COVID era, there’s going to be an awful lot more PTSD. And that’s something that we are quite mindful of. There’s going to be an awful lot of people who suffer with mental health conditions because of the pandemic and the impact that it’s had on them socially and financially. It’s huge. And the estimates of the rates of PTSD are that they’re going to really significantly increase. And especially in frontline workers, people who’ve been exposed to the disease.

Matt Baum:
Most definitely.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
So we can see that in the short term, this is going to be a really important [Marcus 00:24:19] to be proving the cocrystal in.

Matt Baum:
So let’s talk about sleep for a second, because you brought that up earlier about how it’s excellent in treating PTSD or any trauma, sleep is definitely one of the biggest issues. Now, this molecule, pardon me, this molecule that you have created, this cocrystal, binds really well as CBD. We’re seeing a lot of companies in the industry saying that CBN, a different cannabinoid, is very useful in sleep. Will this cocrystal behave the same with something like CBN, or is that a whole different jerk of a molecule that needs an entirely different buddy or something?

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
The CBN is a completely different molecule. And actually it’s funny because it often has a reputation for being sleep enhancing, but it actually doesn’t have as much evidence as CBD does for sleep disorders.

Matt Baum:
Really?

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
No, CBD definitely has far better evidence. There’s very little clinical use of CBN, if any that I can think of, I can’t think of any clinical trial.

Matt Baum:
Yeah. It’s very new. And the same with CBG, is another one.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
With CBN, yes. So this is definitely an anecdote rather than something which has an evidence base. Whereas at least with CBD, we do have an evidence-based. There is randomized control data either where sleep has been looked at as the primary endpoint. So specifically in people who have sleep disorders, but more often what you see in a clinical trial is that the CBD is being used for something else but sleep is coming back consistently as being one of the other symptoms that’s positively affected by CBD. So it’s one of the secondary findings of a trial.
So we have quite a lot of information with CBD in areas like autism, Parkinson’s, Crohn’s disease, or there’s types of conditions where people are reporting that they’re sleeping better when they’re taking CBD. And actually being sleepy is also one of the side effects of CBD. So we have that as a signal as well. So I think CBN has the rep, but probably CBD has a better evidence base.

Matt Baum:
Got you. So it’s one of those things where, and I realized I may be asking you out of your field here because you’ve been focusing on one thing, but it does seem like the claims are being made again. And with a health claim like sleep, it’s not like you’re saying, hey you blind guy, you’ll be able to see again. That would be a health claim that can’t make, but something like sleep, I take a CBD with CBN in it to help with sleep. And chances are, from what it sounds like you’re saying, it’s the CBD that’s putting me to bed.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Until somebody does the trial and convinces me otherwise, all I can go on is the data that I have seen and I haven’t seen data with CBN. So it might be excellent, but nobody has tested it yet. So yeah, it could be that people find us goods, there could be anecdotes of it. And that’s a great place to start if you want to design a study, but we just don’t have that kind of empirical evidence [crosstalk 00:27:32] about CBN.

Matt Baum:
Sure.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
And it may be that the combination is excellent. If you were designing something which was purely a sleep aid, then maybe a combination of CBN and CBD is and great.

Matt Baum:
But we got to do the work first.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Yeah. We’re just not at that level of kind of granularity, I think in cannabis-based medicines of knowing exactly which combinations of compounds to put together. But the probability is that CBN is probably just like CBD in that in most of these compounds from the plant are very fussy lipophilic. And so they all have these problems that they’re not very well absorbed. So it may be that CBN needs a friend as well.

Matt Baum:
Just a different friend. We’ll find out.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Yeah. Who knows what the friend will be.

The future of cocrystals and CBD

Matt Baum:
How far away are we? So I assume if you’re talking to a podcast or in Omaha, Nebraska, right now, you guys feel pretty positive that this is coming through and it’s going to happen. How far out are we from this cocrystal exploding onto the scene?

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Andy you’re better at these, understanding the length of pipelines.

Andy Yates:
I think in something like PTSD, which has already got a good evidence-base in it, which is one of the reasons we chose to develop in that area. We’re looking roughly at being able to generate clinical data. So the sort of data where Saoirse said before, where we have compelling evidence that our cocrystal does something in PTSD.
I would say looking at sort of a two to three year time horizon for where we are now, before you’d be seeing that data come out. Beyond that, to get something which would be available to go to your doctor, your physician for, you’re probably looking at another two to three years on top of that. That’s the realistic sort of timeframe that you’re looking out for a true drug developer to do this,
That being said, Artelo bio-sciences aren’t exploring this, but potentially people might want to come and talk to us about using this cocrystal in the wellbeing market. And if that’s the case, then obviously without putting claims behind it, but potentially having knowledge that this is better absorbed or more consistently absorbed by the body. This could be available on the shelves within a year if it wanted to be used in that sort of way.

Matt Baum:
So I’m not asking you to bust any deals here, but have you been approached by anyone? Because I guess I was of the mindset that, and I don’t know how this works, but I was of the mindset that once you to go down this pharmaceutical path, we do not sway from it, we’re not allowed to. I thought maybe there was a direct line. I didn’t know that you could be approached by a private company and say, we want that.

Andy Yates:
Yeah. Exactly. We’ve been approached by a lot of companies to talk about our portfolio because it’s sort of out there in the sense of all of our compounds target the endo cannabinoid system, that’s a sort of fairly hot topic and very relevant topic. So we speak to a lot of people all the time about our innovations. Obviously I couldn’t say if we’re speaking about this specifically with any partner, but what I think is of interest is that particularly in Europe. And the US has some interesting views and rules on this, but in Europe it’s clear that you could develop this in a wellbeing product and you could develop it as a pharmaceutical.
You may not wish to do that for commercial reasons, but there’s nothing stopping you from the laws and the regulations from doing that. And I don’t see why you couldn’t do that in the US particularly because it’s not approved as a medical product. And as so she said at the beginning, you have to see this molecule with its friend, the way that it’s cocrystallized, right. It’s a sort of unique sort of chemical entity. It’s got unique composition of matter. So until it is a medicine, if you wish, the analogy is it’s not a medicine, it can be put into some products to… So watch this space.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
It just like kind of straight CBD is available over the counter or through Epidiolex. So it already exists in these geo world worlds.

Matt Baum:
So it’s not a matter of they could put it in a purple pill and give it a crazy name and patent it and now no one can use that crystal but of them. This is the kind of thing where yes, it could be very available and very soon.

Andy Yates:
Yeah, absolutely. It could be. If somebody wants to come and speak to us about using this in a wellbeing product, does it say that’s not Artelo’s remit. But if people want, because the thing is, with some drugs, as you probably know, they can be developed in different therapy areas and obviously we would hope to do that with the cocrystal. But sometimes it’s probably not commonly known for necessarily listeners of the show, but the pharmaceutical companies can sometimes do these types of deals. And it sort of sells the rights for the drug, the Parkinson’s disease to company A, and it sells the drugs for the treatment of pain conditions to company B. It’s called split in indications, but we’re not invoking to do that, but potentially you could see something where somebody wants to have this as a wellness product. And Artelo don’t wish to develop in that space. So yeah.

Matt Baum:
Let me ask you, are other people working on this too, because not too long ago, I spoke to a vet that was out of, I think it was Murray state, I can’t remember, left me now. But they were working on a study with aging dogs and arthritis and how CBD affected the inflammation and whatnot in the dogs. And one of the things he mentioned was, I can’t say he used the word crystal, but an element that they were working with that was increasing the bioavailability majorly. And he said, I can’t say the name, I can’t talk about it, it’s very exciting and it’s coming in. It’s huge. Was it you guys? Is it you?

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Well, Andy and I can both comment on this is that it’s widely known that CBD isn’t great by itself. And so lots of people are looking at ways to improve bioavailability. They tend to use different strategies. So there’s multiple strategies in the pharmaceutical world of how you can make a drug better. And so most companies so far have focused on things like using different types of solubilizers or maybe making emulsions or non-emulsions and that those were using… So solubility enhances is probably more common. And so through that way, can they improve the bioavailability of CBD?
And so there are some, there’s not an awful lot of data out there. A lot of people have kind of claimed that their CBD has enhanced bioavailability. There are some that have shown that, have demonstrated this through proper kind of pharmacokinetic profiles. So there are people out there who have developed ways of improving the bioavailability of CBD. But just not through the cocrystal strategy. Andy and I also recently wrote a paper called, Towards Better Delivery of CBD.

Matt Baum:
Cool.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
You could point people to that because it’s a really good summary of everything that people are doing in the pharmaceutical world, not just Artelo but other companies as well. And so we basically summarize the strategies of lots of different companies who are trying to make CBD better. And so it would be a really good thing to link to [crosstalk 00:35:14]

Matt Baum:
Yeah. Please shoot me that link. That sounds awesome. That sounds totally awesome.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Obviously we did that on Artelo time. So there is a, not a conflict of interest because we did it in a very independent way of just looking at what was out there. But our summary is that we think that the cocrystal, because this is a really, this is a typical strategy of pharmaceutical companies to do the cocrystals. And so we think it is applying that kind of pharmaceutical knowledge that Artelo have onto a common problem in drugs. Cannabis isn’t unique or cannabinoids aren’t unique in having physical issues. And so there are lots of different ways that people can approach this. And I think Artelo have done a very smart job of making CBD better.

Matt Baum:
This really sounds like it’s going to change everything. Not to mention the fact that once we can get something like a cocrystal that like you said, can prove that it’s delivering X, a value of some kind. I think that’ll go a long way with the American FDA setting up rules as well, because we can establish something and say, all right, this is exactly what it’s putting in your body. And right now, maybe you’re drinking olive oil. You know what I mean?

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
We actually did a study last year, and then I work for another organization in the UK called The Center for Medicinal Cannabis. And we actually took 30 over-the-counter, CBD products and we did find that one of them with a fairly hefty price tag was just olive oil, there were no cannabinoids in there.
So there was a lot of issues in the over-the-counter CBD markets. And Andy’s working really hard in the UK trying to solve those issues and have some regulation in the industry. Even when you have a good product, the best that it can be is still probably not as good as a consumer would want from a product. And the basis, something we didn’t really mention is that in a lot of the medicinal uses of CBD, you do need quite a lot of the molecule within your body for it to have the pharmacological effects that you need. And for that kind of dosing, it’s very difficult to achieve that with sublingual oils.

Matt Baum:
Oh yeah, definitely.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
It’s very difficult to get hundreds of milligrams of cannabidiol into your body using an oil. It just doesn’t. It’s not a very effective way of drug delivery. It doesn’t taste good, you’re never quite sure exactly how much, you’re guessing because you’re using a dropper trying to figure it out by yourself. Tablets are consistent, you know if you take a paracetamol it’s 500 milligrams of paracetamol to go with. Wherever you go, that’s how it comes.
We need to get to a very pharmaceutical way of delivering basic cannabinoids. If we want them to really be the best that they can be, we’ve got to have that approach to them. And tinctures and oils and foods for me are not necessarily the best way of if you want it for medicinal reasons. Now I’m not talking about what are the reasons you might be taking them. But if you were trying to cure an ailment, you need to know what dose you’re getting.

Matt Baum:
Sure. If you’re targeting an anxiety, for example, then we need to target the anxiety and we need to make sure everything we are shooting at it is getting to the anxiety.

Saoirse Elizabeth O’Sullivan:
Yes. And that’s why you need a product that you can have reliability and consistency and have good stability and absorption, and all the other things that over-the-counter medications should have.

Matt Baum:
Right. And you can write that right on the side of the bottle and say, this is exactly what it does and we know that. That’s important. I think you guys are doing the work of the CBD angels right now honestly, thank you.

Final thoughts from Matt

I want to thank Dr. Andy and Professor Saoirse so much for coming on this show, putting up with my uninformed BS and gently correcting me. And to also just for boiling a very heady, intense pharmacological discussion into something that we can all understand. And I cannot stress how important what they’re working on is. If this cocrystal can do what they say it can do, it literally changes everything. We’re talking about better dosages, real dosages, putting less CVD into your dose, which brings the price of CBD down.

I will have links to the paper they wrote in the show notes and I will also have a link to the episode I mentioned where I interviewed Dr. Matthew Halbert about aging dogs and arthritis, and how CBD is helping them.
Speaking of show notes here at the Ministry of Hemp, we believe that a more accessible world is a better world for everyone. So you can find a complete written transcript for this show in those show notes that I was just talking about.

That is about it for this episode. Thank you again for listening, for downloading, for interacting. And if you have questions about what you heard, I’m going to repeat myself, but call us at (402) 819-6417 and leave your hemp and CBD related questions. Now, those are questions about how it works, not telling me that you want to buy some, because people do that a lot. And that’s great. And we’ve got all kinds of trusted brands that you can find right here on ministryofhemp.com. Speaking of ministryofhemp.com, get over there and check out our new review of the level two. It’s an infusion machine that allows you to make things like infused hemp butter and oil, which is fun. We also have just in time for the holidays, our best 11 CBD skincare and hemp beauty products to help you create a hempy skincare routine.

And if that’s not enough for you, follow us on all of our social media, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, just search Ministry of Hemp. You’ll find us. We’re always putting up all of quality information. And if you appreciate this quality, hemp education, then please go to Patrion/ministry of hemp, and become a ministry of hemp insider. It is the best way to help us out, keep the show going and keep us putting out high quality researched information on hemp and hemp products.

Also, it gets you access to all kinds of early articles and podcast extras. Like this week, I am talking with Dr. Andy about his side gig working with the UK health system to make sure that CBD and other wellness companies are held to a very high standard when it comes to what is actually in the bottle. I’m sure could use someone like that here in the United States.

Luckily, you got us to help you with that. Like I mentioned, we have a trusted brand section at ministryofhemp.com and we have our own seal which says, we researched it, we checked out the lab testing and we know these people are for real. Next time on the show, we’re going to talk about hemp straws and a company that is making them the right way and why hemp plastic might not be as cool as we think it is. And guess what? I’m guilty of that, but hey, I’m here to learn and I’m glad that you guys are here to learn with me.

Now it’s starting to get cold outside and COVID numbers are starting to spike again, so please take care of yourselves out there, wash your hands, wear a mask. If you’re feeling anxious, up your CVD dosage a little bit. I know I have, and it’s really helped. Don’t forget to take care of yourself, take care of others and make good decisions, will you? This is Matt Baum with the Ministry of Hemp signing off.

The post A ‘Cocrystal’ Could Change The Way We Take CBD appeared first on Ministry of Hemp.

This article will help address the different methods used to make cannabinoids bioavailable. We’ll also look at CBD industry claims around water soluble CBD.

First, we’ll start with a brief video introduction to the topic of bioavailability and why it matters to CBD consumers, before taking a deeper dive into the science and inner workings of this subject.

Table of Contents

• A video introduction to CBD bioavailability
• The science behind bioavailability
• What the CBD industry claims about bioavailability
• What CBD delivery methods are the most bioavailable?
• CBD industry innovations
• What about making CBD water soluble?

CBD bioavailability: A video introduction

Let’s take a closer look at CBD bioavailability: how much CBD are you really getting when you take a tincture, eat a gummy, or vape?

Bioavailability is the degree & rate at which a substance is absorbed into the bloodstream, in this case, CBD. There are several different methods of dosing CBD and each one has a different bioavailability. So, how much CBD are you really getting?

In this video, we compared bioavailability for the most popular methods of taking this supplement.

The Science behind CBD bioavailability

To understand these terms and their meaning within the context of hemp-based cannabinoids, it would be helpful to start with some basic science.

First, cannabinoids are lipophilic molecules (i.e., oil-based compounds that are not soluble in water). This means that when you place extracted hemp oils into water, they float. Cannabinoids in their natural lipophilic state do not mix with water and they act exactly as if one poured motor oil onto water—they will not dissolve in the water. This has always been the problem for oil-based compounds—because our bodies are up to 60% water, they have difficulty dissolving, and more importantly, absorbing these types of molecules.

The term “water solubility” refers to a compound’s ability to dissolve into water at a specific temperature. The term bioavailability refers to the amount of active ingredient (AI) in the compound which makes it into the bloodstream. If one injects an AI directly into the bloodstream, this is called 100% bioavailability. If a compound is ingested, in almost all cases that compound is subjected to what is known as a first pass metabolism, or first pass through the liver, where the contents from our stomachs are “cleansed” by the liver on the first pass of digestion.

It is here where most of the degradation of AI takes place as enzymes process digested material within the liver. The chances of ANY ingested lipophilic compound passing 100% of the AI into the bloodstream by ingestion is almost zero percent. Decades of pharmaceutical science have tackled this subject with relative success, but no pharmaceutical company claims 100% bioavailability of active ingredients in their formulations of lipophilic compounds.

Bioavailability and CBD industry claims

Why, then, does the CBD industry continue to tout claims of 100% bioavailability of cannabinoids, or other inflated claims about bioavailability?

The simple answer is because they can. The marketing of unregulated products like CBD “allows” companies to print what they want to believe or what they want you to believe. This is simply the nature of an unregulated industry, and unfortunately the hemp CBD industry is overflowing with overzealous assertions and outright misinformation when it comes to water solubility and bioavailability claims.

Vitamin and pharmaceutical companies have developed methods over time which allow lipophilic molecules to be more readily absorbed by our water-based bodies. These methods have included micro and macro emulsions; liposomes; nano particles; and nano emulsions. While each of these methods has its place in the world of solubility, the truth is to date, this author is unaware of any certified research trials testing the resulting efficacy and bioavailability of compounds associated with each of these cannabinoid formulation methods.

Certified research is available on every form of conversion by the pharmaceutical industry for their products, but few in the hemp industry have done this important work. Very few players in the hemp space have considered blood plasma testing for AI and those who do are mainly working with their own products. There are no independent studies available on this subject without product bias designed to prove one product is better than another. There have been no governing bodies for the industry to guide or implement these studies, and as a result, the public hears unverifiable information created primarily for marketing purposes and providing little insight into the actual efficacy of a product.

Bioavailability and CBD delivery methods: Evaluating the claims

What is the truth about bioavailability? How do our ingestion methods correlate to the amount of active ingredient our bodies process when we ingest hemp-based cannabinoids?

To begin, there are a few basic ways to introduce hemp cannabinoids to the body: through inhalation, ingestion, or application.

With bioavailability as the desired target, the most effective and proven delivery method is inhalation. Studies have shown that combustion, be it smoking or vaporizing cannabinoids, produces bioavailability levels from 2%-56% depending on the study and the smoker, with averages leaning towards the higher side. The high discrepancy in availability is attributed to the experience of the test subject—novice smokers versus experienced smokers who inhale deeper and longer. So simply put, on the higher side of the scale, smokers get a high average bioavailability of cannabinoids around 40% (i.e., less than one half of what they ingest becomes available or quantifiable in their bloodstream). Now that we know this best-case scenario of actual high bioavailability (56% on the highest end), some claims by CBD (cannabidiol) and THC manufacturers may become a little harder to believe.

The truth becomes even more apparent as we move onto other methods.

Sublingual CBD

Ingestion (sublingual) offers much lower bioavailability than inhalation, but the effects are longer lasting. Sublingual delivery is when a tincture is absorbed into the body by delivery into the bloodstream through the soft palate located under the tongue. This is considered the preferred method for bioavailability by mouth as the CBD can absorb through the mucosal membrane and enter into the bloodstream more rapidly than by swallowing. It is this action that many “water soluble” claims are based upon to increase the bioavailability to 100%.

But here is the trick: there are no independent published studies (that I am aware of) testing the transfer of CBD sublingually into the bloodstream by evaluating blood plasma test results to assess an increase in availability. There is a published article where sublingual techniques of cannabinoid delivery are discussed in comparison to known oral delivery bioavailability where the scientists believe that sublingual bioavailability is only slightly higher than oral ingestion. However, almost all the known studies involve THC (with exception of the work by GW Pharmaceuticals). With THC, there is a different outcome when ingested. Since the THC molecule undergoes changes in the digestive tract and transforms to 11-OH THC which is believed to be as much as 5 times more psychoactive than Delta 9 THC (the byproduct of D9 THC), the resulting effects—such as a long-lasting high associated with edibles—are magnified.

So, sublingual is perhaps marginally better than oral delivery.  Oral delivery (ingestion by swallowing) is verifiably known to have bioavailability levels ranging from 4% to 20%, with most studies and outcomes falling within the lower range below 10% bioavailability. As a result, we can theorize (because we have virtually no data to confirm this) that sublingual administration of cannabinoids may yield a range somewhere between 10% and 20%, but not much more.

What about rectal CBD?

There is another way for cannabinoids to enter the body: through rectal administration.

Anecdotal evidence and articles would suggest that this method is the most bioavailable as many cancer patients choose this route of administration. However, the only science available was conducted on monkeys and showed about 13.5% availability, much lower than one would expect given the popularity of this method in large dosages. The truth is, rectal administration is basically location specific. Based on the veins and arteries in the rectal area, absorption into the bloodstream is minimal according to existing scientific publications.

Topical CBD and bioavailability

What about the skin? How and why do topical cannabinoids seem to work? Is the skin capable of transferring CBD to the bloodstream to create bioavailability, and if so how much?

You might be surprised to find that, in reality, transdermal delivery of cannabinoids is only a theory, at least for now, but clinical tests are underway. Eventually, science will prevail as topical CBD products proliferate and inquiring minds prioritize this as an area of study. However, testing the transfer of a lipophilic molecule into water-based skin can’t truly be done without complicated scientific practices which are currently rare in the hemp industry. There is only one company that I am aware of (CV Sciences) who has created a transdermal delivery method with any strong science behind it and who was recently granted a patent for this invention.

Topical CBD vs. topical THC

There is one thing we do know: THC and CBD act differently as far as the epidermis is concerned, and CBD seems to be far more absorptive through the epidermis than THC.

There is also another reason why cannabinoid topicals seem to work so well for so many people. The skin is the body’s largest organ and is filled with CB receptors, as are our muscles, bones, nerves and tissues. So, it is possible the cannabinoids, given the proper carriers, can cross the epidermal layer and directly affect CB receptors by absorption.

If this is true, it would support the massive collection of anecdotal evidence which supports the general consensus that topicals work. But as a formulator, I can tell you that there is a big gap between those components required to make products that just work, and those that work really well. In developing LifePatent’s topical formulations, I am focused on making sure our products work really well as opposed to the ‘whatever works mentality’ that is prevalent in the industry and that is often opposed to exploring the possibilities of what could work better through dedicated research and development.

CBD Innovation, efficacy, And alse claims

Now that we understand how cannabinoids get into our system in different concentrations dependent upon administration methods, we can now start to develop an understanding of the current water solubility methods employed to increase availability, efficacy, or both. We can also now take a look at some of the claims made by certain product lines, and better understand the challenges that consumer’s face when trying to evaluate and differentiate cannabinoid products in the marketplace.

One popular CBD website claims that their ‘Nano Particle Water Soluble CBD’ has a bioavailability of 90% or more. Really? Let’s look at this claim. Our industry is plagued by false or unsubstantiated claims. I have seen no science showing that this company conducted clinical trials comparing their product to others, or comparing blood plasma levels showing their product is 90%+ as effective as an injection into the bloodstream. In addition, this company claims a “patent” on this technology, but do they actually own the patent? Would it be safe to assume the technology is patented and they are buying it from a third-party source who owns the patent and did the blood plasma tests to make the claim that this product works 90+% as well as an injection?

But let’s first understand what this claim is for—it is for a “new” technology which is claimed to be “better” than Nano-Emulsion technology (which this company claims offers an absorption rate of 10-30%). If Nano-Emulsion CBD has a bioavailability rate of 10-30%, and we know that sublingual oil-based tinctures already have a bioavailability rate of 10-20%, where do these claims of increased bioavailability leave us? Confused.

Is anybody confused yet?

If these claims are true, the Nano-Emulsion technology that everybody claimed increased bioavailability by ten-fold is now less than two-fold according to the claims of this particular company because their new “patented” technology claims to be superior to Nano Emulsion. The new science? Nano Particles, which producers claim are smaller and therefore work better.

That seems to be the ‘science’ in our industry: if its particles are smaller, they absorb better—which is somewhat true. A glass of shaved ice, which has a much higher surface area than a glass of ice cubes, will cool down and melt faster due to the greater surface area. Translating this into the skin-blood barrier, smaller particles may pass through the skin easier, but this does not ultimately change the way the body metabolizes or digests lipophilic compounds. Smaller particles just allow a greater surface area in which to transfer the active ingredients through carriers into the body where they still undergo the ‘first pass metabolism’ and where a large percentage of the active ingredients are destroyed by enzymatic processes.

So, is anybody confused yet?

Although it is confusing, now that we have the basics of administering cannabinoids, let’s look at the science behind today’s applications to improve their water solubility.

Making water soluble CBD: How it works

To achieve fine dispersion of oil into water, the water must be kept in a continuous phase while the oil is in a dispersed phase. This requires the use of an emulsifier or surfactant to assist in the dispersal. There are three common ways to achieve this.

1. Macro emulsions, which utilize large 1 micron plus droplets, with the carrier oil and surfactants added. Macro emulsions are rather unstable. Think of this as the mixing of cannabis or hemp oil with lecithin (such as animal fats), and mixing it in a drink at home. This method probably works as well as a good sublingual dosage, and maybe even a little better.
2. Micro emulsions are done on a smaller scale, with droplet sizes 1/10 of the size of a macro emulsion. Micro are more stable than macro. Unfortunately, like macro emulsions, the current science is lacking. Additionally, the number of surfactants used can overwhelm the taste buds or can exceed allowable limits for consumption.
3. Liposomic transfer by spherical structures that are either man made, or available in nature, which have a water attractive (hydrophilic) outer layer and in inner cavity which is capable of encapsulating the cannabinoid molecules and pass them literally “inside” themselves. There are a variety of carriers out there available in the pharmaceutical industry which are approved to do this job. I expect over time there will be CBD manufacturers who reach out to the pharmaceuticals for help, or technology.

I’m excited to be a part of all of this! I can’t wait to one day unveil what my team and I have been able to create in our labs, starting with our solid dose pill. I’m sure others out there have great dedication for the cannabis sciences and are creating the future as well.

Nano particles and nano emulsions

Probably the most well-known method of enhancing solubility is through the use of Nanoparticles or Nano Emulsions. These two terms are completely different things, so let’s first discuss the differences between emulsions and particles.

Nano particles are generally carrier and active ingredient particles dispersed or disrupted with the use of sound waves or frequencies where the particle size of the intended target (the CBD and carrier) is disrupted into smaller and smaller pieces by ultrasonication (sound waves). Nano-sized particles are created by this process. These very small (nano) particles composed of carrier and active ingredients are much smaller than their non-disrupted selves. They’re capable of passing through membrane walls easier as a result of the highly diminished particle size.

Nano emulsion is a mixture of those nanoparticles with emulsions of surfactant droplets, which are also extremely small, and are designed to enter the body more efficiently. Nano emulsion is currently (theoretically) the most bioavailable option out there. But how much better is it? If you listened to some of the companies who sell it, they claim the bioavailability of nano emulsions is over 90%. By now, I’m hoping we all realize that this is doubtful. Considering known administration types, like sublingual or oral ingestion, can be boosted from 20% bioavailability in a best-case scenario to 90+% of that through an intravenous injection, I would be really surprised if a study could ever prove such efficacy for traditional delivery methods.

Water soluble CBD: Can anything be 100% bioavailable?

Returning to nano water soluble claims of 100% absorption, we can see this simply cannot be true unless the water-soluble products on the market today could be (and were) injected directly into the bloodstream. As a result, how do we express the relative bioavailability of products that our industry supplies comparative to the science?

Firstly, we do the science and get the answers before we make claims. LifePatent filed patents in 2017 for water solubility and bioavailability of cannabinoids. We’ve still yet to make a claim of any kind other than the discovery of “nature’s delivery method” for cannabinoids. Our technology has been in testing for over a year. Once all the evidence is in and verified we will speak.

Final thoughts on bioavailability: Do your research

At LifePatent, we encourage all CBD and hemp cannabinoid users to do the research. The unregulated marketplace is the ‘Wild West’ but eventually the Wild West was regulated.

As time passes, we expect to see changes from both consumers and regulatory agencies. This will encourage the proliferation of real science and genuine products. Unfortunately, in our world today we only have the word of mouth and product reviews to make our choices. Tomorrow we may have science and technology to support those referrals and reviews.

Jessica St. Cyr contributed to this guide.

Additional sources

• Bruni, N., Della Pepa, C., Oliaro-Bosso, S., Pessione, E., Gastaldi, D., & Dosio, F. (2018). Cannabinoid delivery systems for pain and inflammation treatment. Molecules, 23, 2478.
• Elsohly, M. A., Stanford, D. F., Harland, E. C., Hikal, A. H., Walker, L. A., Little, T. L., Rider, J. N., & Jones, A. B. (1991). Rectal bioavailability of Δ-9-Tetrahydrocannabinol from the hemisuccinate ester in monkeys. Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences, 80(10), 942-945.
• Hazecamp, A., Ware, M. A., Muller-Vahl, K. R., Abrams, D., & Grotenhermen, F. (2013). The medical use of cannabis and cannabinoids-An international cross-sectional survey on administration forms. Journal of Psychoactive Drugs, 45(3), 199-210.
• Huestis, M. A. (2007). Human cannabinoid pharmacokinetics. Chemistry & Biodiversity, 4(8), 1770-1804.
• Khadka, P., Ro, J., Kim, H., Kim, I., Tae Kim, J., Kim, H., Min Cho, J., Gyiae, Y. Jaehwi, L. (2014). Pharmaceutical particle technologies: An approach to improve drug solubility, dissolution and bioavailability. Asian Journal of Pharmaceutical Sciences, 9(6), 304-316.
• Rashid, M., Malik, M. Y., Singh, S. K., Chaturvedi, S., Gayen, J. R., & Wahajuddin, M. (2019). Bioavailability enhancement of poorly soluble drugs: The holy grail in pharma industry. Current Pharmaceutical Design, doi: 10.2174/1381612825666190130110653

The post CBD Bioavailability & Why It Matters: Exploring The Science Of CBD appeared first on Ministry of Hemp.

In today’s CBD space, consumers confront a plethora of terms describing the products they use and how effective they might be. Sublingual, topical, hemp-derived, isolate, liposomal, full- and broad-spectrum, micro- and nano-emulsified CBD. The list seems to grow every time a new CBD product of any kind hits the shelves.

Added to that list is another descriptive term many consumers are seeing a lot more of today: water-soluble CBD.

Water and CBD–what could be healthier, right? But if you peek behind the hype, you might be surprised to learn what these kinds of products really are and how they work. More importantly, you’ll understand how the technologies used by companies differ. And we’ll explain other more advanced scientific innovations used to deliver CBD — and more of it — into our bodies.

Below, we took a closer look at the subject of bioavailability, water solubility and why any of this matters when you’re buying CBD.

Understanding bioavailability

What most of these new “water-soluble” CBD products are trying to promote is the inference that they are somehow more bioavailable. This exotic new product form also combines two healthy buzzwords: “water” and “CBD”. 

Bioavailability is a measure of how much of a molecular compound ends up in the bloodstream, where it can be delivered to wherever it’s needed in the body. Products with a greater degree of bioavailability can work faster and more efficiently than those with less.

It’s important to note that substances soluble in water can be more easily absorbed by the human body, which is made up of as much as 60% water. Cannabinoids of all kinds, including CBD, are lipophilic molecules. That means they are oil-based compounds that are not really soluble in water. 

These oil-based cannabinoids dissolve only with great difficulty. Extracted hemp oils will float in water just like any other kind of oil. In general, a substance’s water solubility can have a correlation with its bioavailability, too.

Bioavailability — the molecular concentration delivered into the bloodstream — is affected by different factors, including how the product is consumed. For example, a chemical compound delivered intravenously will deliver 100% bioavailability, because it arrives intact directly in the circulatory system and does so chemically intact. Likewise, compounds smoked or inhaled go from the lungs directly into the bloodstream. These consumption forms also provide a fairly high degree of bioavailability.

But compounds that have to undergo metabolism in the liver are broken down and degraded in what’s called first-pass metabolism. Most likely, no other biological process affects bioavailability more. 

The liver’s role in bioavailability

First-pass metabolism is the process in which any orally taken substance is swallowed and enters the digestive system. Next, it is filtered through the gut wall and liver before finally being able to enter the bloodstream. It’s a time-consuming process dependent on the condition of a person’s digestive tract, as well as how many other substances also have to undergo the same process at the time.

More importantly, though, this slow enzymatic metabolism in the liver also substantially degrades — or breaks down — a great many of the chemical compounds going through it. As a result, most orally consumed CBD is destroyed in this process, and little of it — perhaps as little as 4% — makes it through the liver and eventually into the bloodstream.

Bioavailability is important in whether or not a health product works for a person. As a result, CBD consumers have taken notice. So have many CBD companies and their marketing departments.

Water-soluble CBD makes a splash

With greater bioavailability as a stated goal, some CBD makers are selling products touted for their “water-soluble” benefits. This solubility descriptor is increasingly showing up in CBD tinctures and beverages. It’s even used to describe some of the flavorless CBD isolate powders that can be added to foods and drinks. 

The product forms might differ but the water solubility focus is the same, as is the suggested benefit of an oil-based, hydrophobic cannabinoid somehow being made more “soluble” in water and, thus, more bioavailable in the human body.

Though these kinds of CBD products do carry specific benefits, they actually are made with a CBD delivery technology that isn’t as sophisticated, or effective, as some of the other cannabidiol delivery methods being used by some of today’s innovation-forward CBD manufacturers.

Water soluble or ‘water compatible’?

Water soluble CBD products could more accurately be described as ‘water-compatible.’ The oily CBD itself isn’t made soluble but instead is contained inside a structure with an affinity to water. It is like the inverse of putting a smartphone inside a waterproof case to keep it dry. We would say the phone is not waterproof, but the case is. Nanoemulsions containing CBD are akin to a case that likes water and can demonstrate many of the attributes of being water-soluble. 

Nanoemulsions suspend tiny oil droplets in water, and their size can range from 10 to 1,000 nanometers. These emulsions are made up of small nanoparticles, which are designed to enter our bodies more easily between membrane walls, thus elevating their level of bioavailability. These nanoparticles are typically made with sound-wave technology that can make them exceedingly small. They are stable in form (meaning the chemicals in them are dispersed fairly uniformly) and are clear in appearance, making them especially suited for food and beverage applications.

By employing nanoemulsion technology, so-called water-soluble CBD products also don’t have to rely on common emulsifiers such as lecithin, propylene glycol or MCT. All of these can affect taste dynamics in food products, as well as the bioavailability of the products. The quality of the emulsifier can also have an effect on the bioavailability of the product.

What do we mean by ‘solubility,’ anyway?

Solubility is more accurately about how chemicals dissolve in a liquid at a specific temperature, something that tells you nothing about a chemical compound’s bioavailability. It is a measure of degrees of how much solute–the CBD–can be carried in the saturated solution. This is the solubility equilibrium, which defines a chemical compound’s equilibrium. The concentration of the solute in a saturated solution is known as the solubility.

Believe it or not, activated CBD does dissolve in water. But only a minute fraction of it will, making it, essentially, insoluble. And solutions–technically called solvents–can hold only so much of a dissolved solute. Anything above a specific concentration will precipitate out and be wasted. So solubility primarily depends on the chemistry of the solute, in addition to the particle size. Environmental factors such as temperature, pressure and concentration also come into play.

Solubility is an important metric, but it’s not the only one — nor the main one — to necessarily affect the bioavailability of a CBD product of any kind.

Better delivery technologies for CBD

Less sophisticated water-soluble CBD emulsion products boost bioavailability to a degree but they still can’t escape the chemical breakdown that comes from ingestion and first-pass metabolism in the liver.

Wana Brands understands the importance of avoiding first-pass metabolism in order to boost bioavailability. Through advanced chemistry, we have developed CBD products that not only are water-soluble but also minutely small, with a particle size less than 100 nanometers, which is about the width of a strand of hair. 

Wana’s new hemp tincture powered by Quicksilver Scientific technology modifies the chemistry and the particle size of the CBD and adjusts it so more than just a fraction can dissolve in water. It accomplishes this with innovative liposomes that are small enough to pass between body cells and enter the bloodstream directly. This technology guarantees one of the highest degrees of bioavailability outside of a needle injection.

In addition to being incredibly small, these liposomes are nano-sized collections of cannabinoids that are encapsulated – completely surrounded – with a molecular structure that tricks the body into believing they are water-friendly nutrients. This creates a much quicker uptake, beginning immediately in the mouth and avoiding the molecule destruction that takes place in the liver during first-pass metabolism.

Wana Brands also has partnered with Azuca for use of its process of encapsulating CBD molecules with a different technology. Azuca’s process is compatible with foods and relies on an open-ended encapsulation around the cannabinoids. It’s sturdy enough to not break down in digestion and can slip through the liver without degradation or loss of bioavailability.

Both of the processes work as Trojan horses, easily invading the bloodstream after tricking the body into believing they are water-based elements. 

Is water soluble CBD just hype?

Many consumers might find water-soluble CBD of great benefit to their health routines and goals, given the beautiful complexity of our biology and the way it’s governed by the endocannabinoid system.

But consumers also should understand the differences between CBD science and CBD marketing. That way, they can choose the products that work for them the best. 

As long as they possess this knowledge, we know CBD consumers will make better choices, without being distracted by marketing gimmicks.

Try Wana Wellness for yourself

We’d love for you to try Wana Wellness products and experience their benefits firsthand!

Use coupon code MOH25 to get free shipping and 25% off your next order at Wana Wellness. If you need a little more inspiration, check out Ministry of Hemp’s review of Wana Wellness Gummies, one of the review team’s favorite CBD gummies.

The post Water Soluble CBD: A Trendy Reminder That Not All CBD Products Are Made Alike appeared first on Ministry of Hemp.

In this episode of the Ministry of Hemp Podcast, our host Matt talks about the 2020 Summer Olympics allowing athletes to use CBD. Then, Matt sits down with Laurel Angelica Myers, COO at Prima, for a discussion about the science behind their new powdered CBD supplement. This episode is part of our Women in Hemp series.

Our reviewer Drew enjoyed trying Prima’s “Brain Fuel” Elixir, a powdered CBD drink mix, and one of three similar elixirs they offer. Check it out if you’re intrigued after listening to this podcast.

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Powdered CBD supplements: Complete episode transcript

Below you will find the full written transcript of this episode:

Matt Baum:

Real quick before we get started, I just want to thank everybody that has been downloading, and responding and supporting this show. I can’t tell you what it means to me. And there’s a new way to support the Ministry of Hemp Podcast and Ministry of Hemp. Head to patreon.com\ministryofhemp where you can become a monthly supporter of the show, helping us fight the good fight. I’ll tell you more about it in the middle of this episode, but thanks again to everybody, and check us out on patreon.com.

Matt Baum:

I’m Matt Baum and this is the Ministry of Hemp podcast brought to you by ministryofhemp.com, America’s leading advocate for hemp and hemp education. We talk a lot about CBD here on the show, and adding CBD to your daily regimen can be tough, not because it’s… Well, yeah. I guess it can be hard to find, but the good news is you can go to sites like ministryofhemp.com, check our top brands and find great places to get high quality CBD. The tough part can be understanding how to take it.

Matt Baum:

Different labels say different things. They have milligrams on them. They have percentages of CBD. If it’s an oil, can I put it on food? Should I put it under my tongue? If it’s a pill, how many do I take? What do I need? It can all be really confusing. But one of the products we’re going to talk about today is taking a lot of that confusion out of it, and just allowing you to pour a powdered version into a drink. Which is really cool if you’re an athlete or just somebody that goes to the gym and doesn’t enjoy being sore afterwards.

Matt Baum:

Today on the show, I’m going to sit down with Laurel Angelica Myers. She’s the co-founder and CEO of Prima. Prima is a fantastic example of a transparent company that is doing it right. They’re one of our top brands and they’ve got a whole line of amazing CBD related products, one of which is a new powdered supplement that you just add to your coffee, or your water or just about anything else you’re drinking. It’s very cool and I’m excited for you guys to hear about it. But first, speaking of athletes, let’s talk about the Olympics for a minute.

CBD at the Olympics

Matt Baum:

If you live in the Midwest like I do, it’s February and you’re currently freezing. Summer probably seems like it’s a whole year away. But it’s coming, and so are the summer Olympics. And along with the Olympics come some changes to the world anti-doping regulations. Most notably they have dropped CBD from their no-no list, so athletes can now look to CBD for benefits in relaxation and anxiety when both competing and training.

Matt Baum:

You may remember back in episode 18, shameless plug for my own show, when I was talking about Megan Rapinoe, the US women’s soccer star that started a CBD company with her sister. She’s been pushing very hard along with a lot of other athletes to get professional sports to also allow CBD usage, and so far the response hasn’t been great. But seeing the Olympics, specifically the world anti-doping agency who is famous for banning athletes that have used chemicals that are by no means performance enhancing. This is huge news and a gigantic step for CBD becoming a legitimate part of athletes training regimens.

Matt Baum:

I’m not saying the MLB, NFL, NHL and everybody else is just going to change their tune overnight. But news like this definitely makes it harder for them to keep CBD on their banned substance list. So don’t be surprised if you see US Olympians applying CBD topicals to sore muscles, or adding supplements and tinctures to their sports drinks. And really it’s only a matter of time until professional athletes like golfer, Bubba Watson, who signed his own CBD endorsement deal, is using CBD on the links to ease that anxiety on that three foot putt. Sadly, it’s going to take a little more than CBD to help with my own golf game. But what can you do? And now my conversation with Laurel Angelica Myers. Why don’t we start off with a definition of the word bioavailability?

Bioavailability & powdered CBD

Laurel Myers:

Sure. So bioavailability is the rate at which your body can access and absorb something into the body system.

Matt Baum:

Okay. And I’m asking you to start with that because it’s one of the most important things when we’re dealing with any type of CBD. Prima has a new product that is basically a powder that you can pour into your coffee or your water, and get your CBD supplement. What’s the science behind this? How is this working? Because from my experience I’ve seen CBD bonded with MCT oil, or bonded with other fats and placed in sugars. How’s it working in a dry form like this?

Laurel Myers:

That’s a great question. So I’m going to take a step back and explain some of these steps before we get to the dry powder form.

Matt Baum:

Perfect.

Laurel Myers:

But as you noted, bioavailability is really important because if you don’t have good bioavailability on an ingredient, your body’s not going to be able to absorb as much of it to be as effective as possible. You could have a beautiful expensive ingredient, but if it’s not optimized, then in many ways it’s a waste of money, right? It’s going in your body one end, out the other.

Matt Baum:

Right.

Laurel Myers:

So when thinking about how to solve that problem, because there’s a lot of different ways to solve it, you’ll see a lot of [inaudible 00:05:54] solutions and oil. And what that does is it helps break down the CBD molecules into smaller sizes, so that by making it smaller, it’s easier to absorb. But that’s only one part of the process. Just the fat encapsulation itself won’t help. Think of it like oil and water, right? Your body is 90% water. When you make a salad dressing and you put down the vinegar, which is water-based and then the oil, what happens?

Matt Baum:

Separates?

Laurel Myers:

They do not mix, right? They don’t play nice, they separate. And then what happens when you actually mix the dressing together through this agitation, it’s what you call emulsification. And that’s the most important step in making something bioavailable, is you have to create this suspension of emulsification that essentially tricks your body into thinking it’s water.

Matt Baum:

Right.

Laurel Myers:

Essentially what you do is you find a molecule that, one side of it loves water, and the other side of it loves oil, and it then becomes essentially the middleman that takes those two things and binds them together. So all of that is done in a liquid. Right? So you’re blending this into liquid form, and then what makes it into a powder is simply a drying process. Right? And the reason that we did that is because it’s extremely shelf stable. It’s much more flexible because you can mix it into a variety of different things, and it’s much easier to dose that way. Because you can have single serving individual packets, which we found is really important for people who are living busy lifestyles.

Matt Baum:

Right.

Laurel Myers:

People want the convenience and the ease of, I know I want exactly this much and I want it at this time. You can throw one in your bag when you’re traveling on the plane, or one before bed. If you don’t have it in some type of an easy measurable format, it’s one more layer of complexity.

Matt Baum:

Sure. I know I’ve been using it in the mornings when using the Goto, and then recently… I’ve really liked it by the way, and I ran out of that recently, so I switched to the Brain Fuel before I go to work. And I’ve definitely found… I’ve also taken tinctures, I’ve taken lots of different CBD. I’ve definitely found that the way this hits me is a little different than in a tincture. Is that because of the delivery process, because of the dried powder aspect of it?

Laurel Myers:

Yeah. It’s not necessarily the dryness of the powder. It’s around that the micro encapsulation system that’s actually delivering the molecules to your body. So we could’ve done it in a liquid, we could’ve done it in a powder. For us that’s really around what was going to be the most convenient from a consumer standpoint, but it’s around that encapsulation process. Which is the most important piece. And what that means is you are feeling the effects and the benefits almost immediately. It’s pretty rapid in how quickly you’ll be able to feel that.

Matt Baum:

Yeah. I’ve been doing it with water because I have a bad habit of just drinking coffee in the morning and I’m trying to drink more water. So this is-

Laurel Myers:

I feel you.

Matt Baum:

This has encouraged that.

Laurel Myers:

It’s probably the thing that I’m worst at in life.

Matt Baum:

Yeah, I know. And it’s terrible. It’s like, but I’m not thirsty at all, I’ve had 15 cups of coffee. Not great for you.

Laurel Myers:

Exactly. Exactly.

Creating Prima’s powdered CBD mixes

Matt Baum:

How did you guys choose the flavors that you’re using in these? Because I’ve noticed… I mean, I guess whenever you see a powder that you add to a beverage, you expect fruit or lemon/lime or something like this. These aren’t like that at all. They’re very… I’m trying to… Earthy, I guess is the way that I would put it. They’re light and reserved. Why did you guys choose those kinds of flavors?

Laurel Myers:

Well, I’ll give you a really easy logical answer. Because that’s the flavor of the herbs that we’re combining with the hemp extract to deliver the benefits.

Matt Baum:

That makes perfect sense.

Laurel Myers:

So what we did, one of the core fundamental parts of our product line isn’t just the broad spectrum hemp CBD, but it’s looking at other synergistic botanicals that you can pair with the CBD, to really elevate and amplify the benefit you’re trying to deliver. So when you look at something like sleep, right, combining chamomile, hops, valerian, passionflower, these things that are really going to help induce that state of calm, the feeling of the heavy eyelids to help ease you into sleep.

Laurel Myers:

And when you compare it with the adaptogens and nootropics that are in Brain Fuel, we’ve got ashwagandha, rhodiola, those are things that are really going to help drive a lot of that blood flow to your brain, and give you that really energized, focused feeling. A lot of those herbs and botanicals have inherent flavors in and of themselves. So specifically the Brain Fuel, it does taste very earthy is a good description. And almost has like a nutty component. I like to equate it to a red tea.

Matt Baum:

Yeah, I was just going to say it. It’s has a tea aspect definitely.

Laurel Myers:

Yeah. Yeah. It pairs really well with nut milks and even cocoa has some notes of [inaudible 00:10:50] in there, which I think is interesting. But what we did is we did add some bitterness blockers using a natural mushroom extract, because a lot of these herbs can taste very, very, no pun intended, dirty. Literally like dirt.

Matt Baum:

Definitely. Like that same kind of flavor that people experience when they taste cilantro. I love the flavor, but there are people that taste it and they get that dirt flavor in their mouth.

Laurel Myers:

Yeah. So what we’ve done is we’ve really embraced the natural flavor of the herbs but we’ve tried to balance it out to make it a bit more palatable, and really help round it out. It’s not a flavored beverage. It’s not like a berry flavored boost that you add to your drink. It’s an herbal mix, and we intentionally didn’t include any sweeteners, so there’s no stevia, there’s no sugar, there’s none of that in there. Because we wanted it to be extremely helpful and also really flexible and versatile. Right? Not everybody wants that experience when they’re looking for a healthful beverage.

Matt Baum:

Can I ask, is the process that you’re doing to the herbs, like the first ones you named was the sleepy time one, is that process similar to what you do to the CBD?

Laurel Myers:

No, it’s a little bit different. So a lot of the herbs we’re taking as pure herb extract, and a lot of them don’t have the same bioavailability challenges that CBD does. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen a CBD extract, but it comes out almost as a really, really thick, crystallized honey.

Matt Baum:

Really?

Laurel Myers:

So it’s very difficult. Yeah, it’s pretty wild. It’s really viscous. It’s very oily, very different than a lot of these other herbal extracts, which are often already in powder form as the raw extract itself.

Matt Baum:

Interesting. And are you using the same CBD that you’re using in this dry product in other Prima products? Is it the same exact stuff?

Laurel Myers:

Yeah, it is. It is. We have a single origin source up in Oregon, and we control our supply chain and it’s absolutely the same that we use across our whole portfolio. That being said, it is going to vary as an agricultural crop product from lot to lot. So you may have one harvest of hemp that has a different terpene profile than another harvest of hemp. So there is some natural variability within each of those batches of the hemp extract, and that’s just due to its natural nature. And we’re not working with an isolate. An isolate would be just the CBD molecule. We’re working with a broad spectrum extract that includes turpines and flavanoids and some of the other fatty acids. And because of that there’s a bit more variability to it.

Matt Baum:

Okay. And when you add other herbs and whatnot in there, you’re getting even fuller spectrum if you will, I guess.

Laurel Myers:

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Matt Baum:

Now this might be a stupid question. Does adding it to a hot liquid versus a cold liquid make any difference?

Laurel Myers:

Not particularly, but just as with herbal teas, you don’t want to add it to boiling, boiling water. Right? That’s going to have a fairly bitter flavor and it’s going to compromise the quality of some of the ingredients. Like with a green tea, you’re not supposed to pour piping hot boiling water. You let it cool for a minute and then pour it on top. But that doesn’t really make a huge impact. It’s just going to make more of an impact on the flavor profile and the robustness of it.

Support the Ministry of Hemp on Patreon

Matt Baum:

Let’s take a quick break to hear from Ministry of Hemp, editor in chief Kit O’Connell to tell you about our new Ministry of Hemp Patreon kit. Take it away.

Kit O’Connell:

Hi, this is Kit O’Connell. I’m the editor in chief of Ministry of Hemp. I hope you’re enjoying the Ministry of Hemp podcast and the articles we’ve been publishing recently. But today I want to talk to you about the newest way that you can support what we do. So we’re launching a Patreon at patrion.com/ministryofhemp. And this Patreon will help our readers and fans contribute to what we do. With your help we will be able to make our podcast and produce even more great articles about science and information about hemp and CBD. We’ll publish more recipes and more guides. We’ll be able to work with more journalists, chefs, and authors of all kinds.

Kit O’Connell:

Not only that, but by joining our Patreon you’ll become a Hemp Insider. We’re launching a special newsletter just for our Patreons. Each month we’ll work with experts and advocates and other industry professionals to give you an inside look at hemp and offer you ways to help the return of our favorite plant nationwide. To get access to this new newsletter you can donate any amount on our Patreon, even as low as $3 a month. For a few dollars more we’ll send you some Ministry of Hemp stickers, and even samples of our favorite CBD products. If you join before February 15th at $25 or more, we’ll give you a Ministry of Hemp t-shirt as well. So if you love hemp and the work that we’re doing at the Ministry of Hemp, I hope you’ll support us. You can join at patrion.com/ministryofhemp. That’s P-A-T-R-E-O-N dot com slash ministry of hemp, which is all one word. Thanks.

Standing out in the CBD industry

Matt Baum:

Laura, I want to thank you for being so upfront about the process and whatnot. A lot of people may have said, well, that’s company secrets or whatever. I was thinking about how you said we didn’t make this berry flavored. You could have made this taste like Kool-Aid, but in keeping that herbal flavor, it feels more real, I guess. I don’t know. That might sound silly. But I also very much like that I know exactly how much CBD I’m getting. What was the decision there?

Laurel Myers:

Part of it is that there’s so many options out there, and it’s really hard to know who to trust in the CBD space. There’s no shortage of brands. There’s no shortage of products. This is why you’re doing what you’re doing, right? You guys sit here and you vet and you review, to help customers find the right choices for them. I would say, for us, it’s everything [inaudible 00:16:44]. The entire design and experience of the product. Is this doing what it needs to do? Is this actually working?

Laurel Myers:

And actually working starts with, where’s my ingredient coming from? Is it high quality? Is it extracted in a quality and standardized way? Is that ingredient then optimized in a product that’s going to get me what I want? Because how you get the CBD onto your skin for example, is going to be different than what you want it to do when you’re taking it orally. And you want to make sure that it’s really optimized for both of those experiences, whether you’re looking to balance your skin because you’re dealing with some skin redness or other skin challenges, or because you’re feeling a little bit crazy with your day to day stress and your body needs a breath of fresh air.

Matt Baum:

Right.

Laurel Myers:

Two very different things. And I think one of the things that we do really differently is our science and our science led approach. All of our products are doctor formulated. So it’s not just, do we know how to make a quality product? But we’re working with doctors on looking at the ingredients, looking at the effect we’re trying have. And the problem we’re trying to solve, and making sure that we are using really efficacious plant-based botanicals to help drive that impact. So, it’s not marketing, it’s certainly backed by science. It’s the standards we use, right? It’s not just the standard we have for hemp, but our entire formula.

Laurel Myers:

Is it a clean formula? Is it free of neurotoxins and carcinogens, and all of these things? We actually have standards that are stricter than the EU. Which is something that’s really important to note because in the US we don’t have fantastic standards, certainly around cosmetics and the topical category. The US has only banned somewhere between 10 and 15 chemicals for use in personal care. The EU has banned over 1500. We have a list of over 3000 ingredients we won’t use in any of our topical products.

Matt Baum:

That’s amazing.

Laurel Myers:

And we’re very passionate about that. So it’s not just the CBD and the source of the CBD, and the quality and the efficacy of the design, but the overall safety and quality of the total product. And at the end of the day, is it something that customers need? How is it solving a problem for me? One of the challenges that we certainly feel with the tincture space is people don’t know how to take it. They’re already confused by CBD. They don’t know what it does, what it doesn’t do, how to take it, and now you’re giving them a product that is also confusing on top of that.

Laurel Myers:

How do I take this oil? Do I put it in my coffee, do I swallow it? Do I put it under my tongue? How much do I take? It’s really confusing and that additional confusion means people are probably not going to take it correctly, and then they’re not going to get the benefit, and then they’re not going to believe that CBD works, which is a big problem. So by solving the format, that does a huge, huge service to changing people’s perception on what a powerful ingredient this can be, when taken in the right way, in a way that’s easy for them.

Matt Baum:

Is that where the idea for this started initially, with the whole idea of just how can we take a single shot of CBD, tell someone exactly what is in there and make it super easy to deliver? Is that where this came from?

Laurel Myers:

Yeah. I think it was a big pain point that we saw that we ourselves as consumers, and a lot of the people that we knew, were feeling super confused. And I watched how people were using them and they weren’t using them correctly, and it was a really big challenge. And I heard a lot of people say, “Oh, CBD doesn’t work for me.” And then when you start to dig a little bit and understand why, there are so many ways where it could go south and not work for that person. And so one of our big goals is how do we make this easy? How do we make this something that is portable? I can take it on the go, I can put it in just about anything.

Matt Baum:

That’s what I really like.

Laurel Myers:

Yeah, it’s a really nice experience, right? The Goto, what I love about it, is it basically has a very light, almost cucumber type flavor and that’s just the flavor of the hemp itself. That’s all you’re tasting. And it’s so benign, you can put it in your water, you can put it in your coffee, put it in anything, and it’s so convenient.

Matt Baum:

Yeah, it really is.

Laurel Myers:

And I think that convenience without sacrificing efficacy is really where the root of this is. And I think having also just the single serve, have it on the go. I have three in my purse at anytime, some in my desk, some at home in my kitchen, they are wherever I’m going to be and they’re perfect.

Matt Baum:

Yeah. Definitely. I will say I was skeptical at first, just because I hadn’t seen a CBD product delivered like this. And when they showed up at my house, it’s like, well, let’s just try it. And it was shortly before the holidays and lo and behold, on new year’s day, I found myself a little hung over. And so I started the day with the Goto as I have, and put it right in my water and sucked down a pint of water, and I have to say, 30 minutes later I did not feel bad at all. And it’s in something that I didn’t notice. Maybe on a day to day basis… I noticed, okay, yeah, I feel pretty good. This is all right.

Bioavailability of CBD drink mixes

Matt Baum:

But I didn’t notice it until I had a correction take place basically. And it shocked me. I really liked it and I’ve been enjoying that aspect of, I know exactly what I’m getting, whether I’m dropping in my coffee or I’m dropping it in the water that I’m trying to drink in the mornings. I think it’s fairly brilliant. You had said earlier that it hits you very quickly. What is the difference between… obviously other than it’s administered, you know exactly what you’re getting, but what is the difference between taking a tincture of the same amount, and taking a dry product like this? Will the effects last longer? Shorter? What’s that like?

Laurel Myers:

Yeah. It’s not necessarily about the duration, it’s about, I think, two pieces here. How quickly but also how much, right? So if you’re talking about 10 milligrams of A and 10 milligrams of B, they’re not always created equal. So 10 milligrams of an oil, let’s say you end up absorbing two to 8% of that versus 10 milligrams of an optimized powder, it’s going to be far, far greater. So I think there’s a few different pieces here. And to answer your question regarding a tincture, it depends how you take it. If you put it in your food, or in your coffee, then it’s going to take probably, I don’t know, let’s call it an hour to really go through your digestive system and make its way. But at that point it’s getting fairly degraded by your digestive system as well, and your body’s processing it in a different way.

Laurel Myers:

Again, because it’s oil as opposed to something that is water soluble. Whereas something that is water soluble is going to move through your body more quickly and get to where it needs to go more quickly. Now, certainly the tinctures that go underneath your tongue, the idea there is that it’s much rapid absorbing because it’s actually not going through your stomach. It’s going through your cell membranes in your mouth, but not everybody takes it that way. And even when you do do that, doing that with an oil versus something that’s been prepared in a different type of solution format, is going to have different levels of bioavailability and optimization.

Matt Baum:

Sure. You’re also still swallowing a lot of it at that point too. Not all of it is absorbed.

Laurel Myers:

Yeah. And I will say, look, the science here is still being done every single day. There was a study done probably about two years ago that was looking at the oral absorption. When I say oral, I mean you ingest it, versus oral mucosal, think under the tongue tincture of CBD, and which one is actually more beneficial. Forget bioavailability per se. But those two different delivery systems. And that particular study found that actually the oral format seemed to show greater promise than the tincture. But that was just one study.

Laurel Myers:

At the end of the day, what we know right now is that science is looking at this, studies are being done. People want to understand, and what we know also are people’s experiences. Are they having a positive experience with this? Is this bringing what they want to their wellness routine? And I think for us we’re just thrilled because people love our stick pack. People rave about them. I think one of my favorite quotes is that it felt like my body took a breath of fresh air. And I thought that was really beautiful because it does describe that intangible experience that CBD can bring of regaining some of that balance that you didn’t even know wasn’t there in the first place, until you get it back.

Matt Baum:

Definitely. I’ve got to say you guys made a fan out of me and this is not an infomercial. This is just a podcast. In fact I’m going to beg you guys to send me some more of the Goto because I love it.

Laurel Myers:

I can do that. I can do that.

Getting to know Laurel Angelica Myers

Matt Baum:

That would be great. We’ve been talking about this product the whole time. Laurel, what is your background? Where did the CEO of Prima come from?

Laurel Myers:

Great question. I am a lifelong learner. I am curious about all things and never really sleep. I’m also a huge skeptic, so I will say, when I was first looking at this space, I was like, I don’t know, CBD seems like snake oil. This seems like a whole lot of hogwash. I don’t know if there’s a [inaudible 00:26:08] there. And I definitely had my pretty skeptical glasses on as I was looking at this when I first heard about this, maybe three or four years ago. And then as I started to do the research and learn about the endocannabinoid system and learn about how it works, it was a pretty big moment of awakening for me.

Laurel Myers:

One, because I had no idea my body had this massive system. [crosstalk 00:26:31] all these things and I thought, wow, I’m really neglecting it. And also overtaxing it on a daily basis. And I don’t know, for me, I’ve always been drawn to science. It’s very fascinating, but I am an operational thinker, at the end of the day. I spent the last seven years before founding Prima at the Honest Company overseeing the brand portfolio strategy and product development there. So I’ve developed personal care products, dietary supplements, diapers, wipes, make up, you name it. I’ve got a fairly robust background in consumer product development.

Matt Baum:

Impressive.

Laurel Myers:

That’s where that comes from. And you just learn by doing and asking lots of questions, and learning by getting your hands dirty.

Matt Baum:

Yeah. Getting your feet wet. Yeah.

Laurel Myers:

I didn’t want to go into bypassing the liver and membrane absorption. Because I’m also not a scientist by background. I know this because I work with scientists but that’s certainly… I’m not a chemist, I’m not a doctor, I’m not those things. But I know how to surround myself with really smart people who do, and who teach me and inform the decisions that we make to make sure that we’re bringing the best products to market for our customers.

Matt Baum:

Which is super important. And I like the idea here of a smaller dose, you know exactly what’s in it, which allows users to start low and go slow.

Laurel Myers:

Go slow. Exactly.

Matt Baum:

And I think your product is an-

Laurel Myers:

And listen to your body.

Matt Baum:

-excellent introduction to it. This powdered product. I think it’s a fantastic introduction because, like you said, you know exactly how much you’re getting. I really like that aspect of it.

Laurel Myers:

And the other component with that too, because this is so individualized, and everybody responds differently, having that single serve measurable packet being a level that you can experiment with. And say, you know what, today I’m going to do two, I’m going to do two in my coffee of that Brain Fuel because I feel like that’s what I need. Or I’m going to do half of one because maybe 10 milligrams is too much for me. But when you have a premeasured packet that’s really easy to go up and down and figure out what works for you. And that’s the other piece of it is as well, is giving people flexibility to have control over their own bodies.

Matt Baum:

Definitely.

Laurel Myers:

And figure out what’s going to work for them.

Matt Baum:

Laurel, thank you so much for your time today. This has been fantastic and huge thanks to Laurel and Prima for coming on the show and talking about their new product. Of course, you’ll be able to find the links to that in our show notes. And while you’re at Ministry of Hemp dot com be sure to check out the review of their Brain Fuel supplement by our very own Drew De Los Santos.

Final thoughts from Matt

Matt Baum:

That about does it for another episode of the Ministry of Hemp podcast. We want to thank everybody who has been downloading, calling us and supporting us and like Kit said in the middle of the show, if you really want to show your support, check us out on Patreon.com. I’ll be posting Ministry of Hemp podcast extras there. We’ve got one for free so you can check it out this time. It’s just Laurel and I rapping about the CBD business. And it didn’t quite fit in our interview but I thought it was still really good information and I’m going to try and include more stuff like that weekly over at Patreon. So please check us out. Patreon.com\ministryofhemp.

Matt Baum:

Over at ministryofhemp.com you may have forgotten it is Valentine’s day this weekend, so check out our guide to the best CBD Valentine’s day gifts of 2020. Kit and the gang have put together a really cool list of stuff including some delicious CBD chocolates from Incentive Gourmet. If you didn’t hear my interview with David Little CEO of Incentive Gourmet, check it out. It was last week. It was a lot of fun. If you want to get in touch with us at Ministry of Hemp, you can find us all over the place. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram or you can even call us at (402) 819-6417. Now that’s a phone line we reserve for your hemp questions.

Matt Baum:

Maybe you want to learn more about we talked about today or anything hemp related. Call me, leave a message and Kit and myself will answer your questions on the show. We’ve done a couple of Q and A shows and they were a ton of fun. I got another one coming up soon. We love to hear from you. And if you’re too nervous to call, you can always email me, matt@wordpress-559906-1802377.cloudwaysapps.com. At Ministry of Hemp we believe an accessible world is a better world for everybody. So you can find a complete written transcript of this episode in the show notes. Next time on the show, we’re going to be talking about taking hemp and wellness education straight to the people. So I hope you tune in, but until then, remember to take care of yourself, take care of others, and make good decisions, will ya? This is Matt Baum with the Ministry of Hemp podcast, signing off.

The post Powdered CBD Supplements: A Conversation With Prima COO Laurel Angelica Myers appeared first on Ministry of Hemp.